Usama Bin Laden

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

WMD :rockit:

global relationships involve a game of smoke and mirrors.  which is why you see new sources so often get it wrong (among many other things).  case in point:  the news agencies will occasionally pick up on a plan of war for a certain country.  however, the us has a plan for just about everything under the sun.  we had a fucking plan for a british invasion post world-war I, "war plan red" 

wmd=military credibility in the middle east
osama dead or alive=osama in limbo (for the immediate action post 9/11)
food for somalia=promoting regional stability (a big thing of the us during the '90s.  we've since learned that actions like this have repercussions that are unrelated to our original plan.  there is no neutral interference)

there's an area between what is released by the us government, what the us government means by their action, and what everyone perceives a us action to be.  there's uncertainty around every political action i.e. the soviets weren't invading afghanistan to conquer the world.  they were there to preserve a pro-ussr socialist government

since i'm getting further into it:

Al Qeada used to be backed by the US government when the soviet union attacked afganistan. when their job was done the US named them terrorist.

al qaeda evolved out of the mujhaideen (which has been said).  there were other factors that promoted this as well including actions by governments in the middle east.  the mujhaideen don't exist to destroy the us.  the us is merely a hurdle to the return of the caliphate.  the rise to power of al qaeda was a us oversight.  a lot of this has to do with the ambiguity around the term terrorist.  terrorism has come to incorporate many things that don't necessarily distinguish between groups blanketed by the term.  hamas=/=tim mcveigh=/=al qaeda, etc.  al qaeda is a new animal

there was also a few very distinct loopholes in us "intelligence."  the us has "known" a lot of things, but it has been very similar to the difference between "hearing" and "listening."  the us will know EVERYTHING that is going on at one point or another, but it relies heavily on verifiable sources and not inferences.  the us also has a plan or description for almost every event that could possibly happen, but if these plans are not verifiable in sources, they do not receive much attention.  al qaeda knew (through a number of sources, experiments) the weak-points (including the structure of intelligence agencies) in us intelligence and exploited them brilliantly.  the us underestimated them (as they/we did the japanese, etc.) and paid for it.  in all of their operational success, they have been a fundamental failure (so far)

plus, when fighting a common enemy, differences can be put to the wayside.  these tend to reappear after the common enemy has been exterminated

[^_^]

WMD :rockit:

 which is why you see new sources  so often get it wrong (among many other things).  case in point:  the news agencies  will occasionally pick up on a plan of war for a certain country. 

do you think it is right that the great united states of america should get something like this wrong? we got it completely wrong.

i don't find his explanation about invading Iraq as a POSSIBLE breading ground a good reason either to be honest....

"so let's go after the people not responsible for the attacks"

but i don't want to argue with you about it, because you make sense in your post. i'm just pointing out the fact that that was the problem that needed to be solved.

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

do you think it is right that the great united states of america should get something like this wrong?

we didn't.  we knew exactly what we were doing

i don't find his explanation about invading Iraq as a POSSIBLE breading ground a good reason either to be honest.

it wasn't.  it was a "justification"

[TheGodEmperor]

What they have been through 3 years before? That happened in Europe. What does it have to do with the Palestinian situation and the displacement of people from their land? Using the Holocaust (if it did happen the way you say it did) as a justification to do what ever is wrong. Its like saying American Indians have the right to do what ever because they have been through hard times.

maybe is you even read my post properly you'd understand what I meant. I'm not going to say it again, so read my post over more carefully...

also, you're treading a very fine line between being an asshole and being a holocaust denier...which is, I believe, a crime in Australia. So it was the Germans who perpetrated the holocaust. Just go and ask any German about the fact and he'll telkl you unless his head is shaved and hes wearing nazi-style boots. The Germans themselves admit it! The records from the concentration camps verify it! It's only people like you that are in denial over the numbers and the events out of sheer spite/stupidity. I don't even know which one it is...either way you are contemptible.

Again your looking for sympathy thats pathetic. Ahmadinajad never said anything about nuking Israel because of Jews. He said the state of Israel shouldn't exist and rightly so. Stop distorting the truth and making it seem like its Jews vs antisemetics. Thats cowardly. Again its got nothing to do with race or religion.

Ahmadinejad said that the holocaust never happened, and that Israel should be wiped off the map. Draw your conclusions when looking at the connections between the two beliefs.

This business of trying to use Jews suffering of a thousand years ago and in Germany is not a justification for what Israel has been doing for 60 years.

did I ever say it was? I was just putting it into perpective seeing as nobody even shed a tear for us until a few years AFTER the holocaust.

Plus you can't compare 1948 to events that took place thousands or hundreds of years ago, the UN and global laws exist. Japan can't come into Australia and claim it.

once again you show plain ignorance. The UN was only founded in 1945, and it supported the freation of Israel.

We have already been through this in another thread and every time you come with these lame excuses and justifications. Go back to that thread and read those arguemnts.

you clearly lost in that thread...everyone agreed on that except for holocaust deniers/uneducated pigs like you and moby....just look at mafioso's posts  :lol:  god I miss that guy

I didn't ask you for a history lesson kid, I knew these things when you where still in elementary.

I know that you didn't ask for a history lesson...but you need one, and no matter how much hard fact is placed before you, you are still blinded by the uneducated views that you stubbornly stick to. The sad thing is you are twenty something and are still arguing with a highschooler over political issues, and you're showing yorself to be an uneducated, semi-literate fool. You know, adults can redo school if they really need to. I think that yours is such a case.

I'll tell you how it came up I exposed you for the hypocrite that you are.

Your not even worth arguing with because your just going over the same Israeli propaganda, I get enough of that on Fox news so STFU.

holy shit FOX NEWS?!!!!  :lol: Fox news is bullshit...I never watch that...I watch fucking CNN and BBC, Fox news isn't even news, it's rightwing progaganda. I'm not right wing. I am pretty far to the left on almost every issue, and compared to most people, I don't even like Israel all that much. If thinking that Israel should exist is right wing, then almost every 1st world leader in the world is right wing. Barack Obama is right wing. Fuck, CHINA is right wing if that is your criteria. Answer me this, ARE YOU SERIOUS? I don't even know what to say  :lol:
 

I'm not going to agree or disagree with you, but it seems to me that if you could pull up some facts, articles, etc. then your argument will probably be stronger. And you won't be told to go and read a book, etc. Your points, like Adi said, stick to the basics; overcomplicating things will always kill an argument.

The facts are right there in the open Israel has been occupying Palestine for 60 years. I don't need an article to tell you that its obvious.

What do you mean told to read a book? The kid is pathetic, hes going over the same load of crap over and over, please go to the other thread and look back.

It can't get anymore basic than it is.

he means basic, as in a lofgical, structured, coherent argument...yours is none of those. And you still haven't given me any facts, names, dates...in other words, you have no credibility. You're just making empty statements free of substance.

I suggest that you go to your nearest library and open a book  :thumbsup:

[cigar omar]

also, you're treading a very fine line between being an asshole and being a holocaust denier...which is, I believe, a crime in Australia.

Go report me. lets see what happens.  :lol:

did I ever say it was? I was just putting it into perpective seeing as nobody even shed a tear for us until a few years AFTER the holocaust.

Why should anyone shed a tear? Did you shed a tear for the African Americans? Did you shed a tear for the Palestinians. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

Ahmadinejad said that the holocaust never happened, and that Israel should be wiped off the map. Draw your conclusions when looking at the connections between the two beliefs.

Meaning Israel shouldn't be on the map, it should say Palestine. We can all draw our own little conclusions.

you clearly lost in that thread...everyone agreed on that except for holocaust deniers/uneducated pigs like you and moby....just look at mafioso's posts  LOL  god I miss that guy

If you believe you won than you did. Just because some one supposedly agreed with you. Hahaha now your calling us pigs? thats rich, because if called you a pig or a monkey that would be considered anti semitic wouldn't it?

I know that you didn't ask for a history lesson...but you need one, and no matter how much hard fact is placed before you, you are still blinded by the uneducated views that you stubbornly stick to. The sad thing is you are twenty something and are still arguing with a highschooler over political issues, and you're showing yorself to be an uneducated, semi-literate fool. You know, adults can redo school if they really need to. I think that yours is such a case.

Let me educate you a little nerd. I can bring up pages upon pages of why Israel is wrong, but whats the point, you will just deny it anyway and write back a load of crap that I don't really want to read. Secondly I just turned 20 so I don't know where you get twenty something. Do you really think I'm arguing with you? There are barriers here. I would argue with certain people on this board (elite, connor, adi, mafioso, chunck, etc people that actually are worth it) and its evident that I do all the time. You on the other hand I can't take you seriously, no one does, the last time I did take you seriously you showed me how mis-informed you are. Coming back at me over and over when all I had to do was prove everything you said wrong I wasn't even bringing up my arguments. You probably just echoing your murderous fore fathers views. the link is right here go back and argue with yourself because I'm sick of hearing the same old shit over and over from you. and like I said before I don't care about the Holocaust, its got nothing to do with this so stop bringing it up. http://www.beyondfootball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2116.0

he means basic, as in a lofgical, structured, coherent argument...yours is none of those. And you still haven't given me any facts, names, dates...in other words, you have no credibility. You're just making empty statements free of substance.

 

Again like I told you before I can bring up pages upon pages of why Israel is wrong, but theres no need because even you are lying to yourself, deep down you know they are in the wrong, an article or certain events been bought up wont change your views.

I suggest that you go to your nearest library and open a book

I suggest you get out of your room and breath outside air. Sitting their all day reading hundred year old poetry isn't healthy for you. Go fiind yourself some friends besides the ones you have online, a kick back joint and a girl. Your pathetic man. 

[TheGodEmperor]

murderous forefathers? Seriously?

If you can back up ypur arguments, then do so...

I will admit defeat IF you prove me wrong...you've proved nothing, given me nothing concrete. I'm open to an opinion change...but only if you give me a reason...

why are you here arguing with me if I'm not worth arguing with?  :dontknow:

this conversation is over unless you post some actual facts. Neither of us is making any headway on each other, so either end this or show me something that proves that we are the source of all this anguish and pain in the world. Just know that this is my people, my religion, my culure, and you're basically degrading it. You can't really know the meaning of Israel to a Jew unless you're a Jew, but lets just say it can easily bring a lump to my throat, and I am the most cynical Jew I know. I don't believe in the bible and I make fun of religios people...sometimes to their faces. I can't be accused of being blind, because I've been immersed in the mots multicultural society in the world for my entire life. I've belaboured this issue with people like you before, but frankly I don't see the use. I'm not going to convince you, you're probably not going to convince me, so lets just (virtually) shake hands and call it a day, because this is getting nowhere.

Lets be mature people here

[cigar omar]

murderous forefathers? Seriously?

If you can back up ypur arguments, then do so...

I will admit defeat IF you prove me wrong...you've proved nothing, given me nothing concrete. I'm open to an opinion change...but only if you give me a reason...

why are you here arguing with me if I'm not worth arguing with?  :dontknow:

this conversation is over unless you post some actual facts. Neither of us is making any headway on each other, so either end this or show me something that proves that we are the source of all this anguish and pain in the world. Just know that this is my people, my religion, my culure, and you're basically degrading it. You can't really know the meaning of Israel to a Jew unless you're a Jew, but lets just say it can easily bring a lump to my throat, and I am the most cynical Jew I know. I don't believe in the bible and I make fun of religios people...sometimes to their faces. I can't be accused of being blind, because I've been immersed in the mots multicultural society in the world for my entire life. I've belaboured this issue with people like you before, but frankly I don't see the use. I'm not going to convince you, you're probably not going to convince me, so lets just (virtually) shake hands and call it a day, because this is getting nowhere.

Lets be mature people here

Exactly why I can't be stuffed arguing this issue, it always comes up and it always ends the same way. I've done it too many times.

[TheGodEmperor]

murderous forefathers? Seriously?

If you can back up ypur arguments, then do so...

I will admit defeat IF you prove me wrong...you've proved nothing, given me nothing concrete. I'm open to an opinion change...but only if you give me a reason...

why are you here arguing with me if I'm not worth arguing with?  :dontknow:

this conversation is over unless you post some actual facts. Neither of us is making any headway on each other, so either end this or show me something that proves that we are the source of all this anguish and pain in the world. Just know that this is my people, my religion, my culure, and you're basically degrading it. You can't really know the meaning of Israel to a Jew unless you're a Jew, but lets just say it can easily bring a lump to my throat, and I am the most cynical Jew I know. I don't believe in the bible and I make fun of religios people...sometimes to their faces. I can't be accused of being blind, because I've been immersed in the mots multicultural society in the world for my entire life. I've belaboured this issue with people like you before, but frankly I don't see the use. I'm not going to convince you, you're probably not going to convince me, so lets just (virtually) shake hands and call it a day, because this is getting nowhere.

Lets be mature people here

Exactly why I can't be stuffed arguing this issue, it always comes up and it always ends the same way. I've done it too many times.

great, finally an agreement  :cheers:

well argued, sir

[cigar omar]

If there can be no peace and love in the middle east, lets at least have it here. :thumbsup:

[TheGodEmperor]

If there can be no peace and love in the middle east, lets at least have it here. :thumbsup:

fair enough

[moby]

do you think it is right that the great united states of america should get something like this wrong?

we didn't.  we knew exactly what we were doing

i don't find his explanation about invading Iraq as a POSSIBLE breading ground a good reason either to be honest.

it wasn't.  it was a "justification"

this man is the only true honest person here, and elitestricker.



dont think i'm sucking up but i truly gained some respect for you

[Adi]

Aww it's all over.  :down:

I was having a good time reading through all this.