UFC 101

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

Jason Macdonald

bjj black belt

Chael Sonnen

2x d1 national champion

Ryan Jensen

got me there

Name me another fighter besides GSP that has broken through BJ Penn's guard so easily

you're putting too much weight on that one fight against a much smaller opponent

As a white belt he was tapping out blue and purple belts

 :lol:

Alves has unreal BJJ, and still destroyed that and made him look like a purple.

thiago alves is a purple belt

[TJ Hooker]

Yeah, but those fighters mentioned had nothing to show for it. Hint: Check their records  :pimp:
To compare their stats to accomplished people with great records and great ground game is a mismatch.
(GSP handed it to them)

As for putting too much 'emphasis' on a smaller opponent, it does not matter in BJJ.
They teach you to use your smaller stature for leverage. And besides, they were both the same weight, so who cares?
BJ Penn has some of the best Jitz in the world, so why would a 15 pounds really matter? you become 90 lbs. in an armbar

:lol:

I don't know if your laughing because you don't belive me? But here is the proof.

feature=PlayList&p=4975BD2883386159&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=19

BJ Penn as a white belt in the Joe Moriera Internationals Tournament in 1997.

thiago alves is a purple belt

Yeah, I realised that after I wrote it, I was thinking of Thiago Silva for some reason, who is notorious for his blackbelt.

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

As for putting too much 'emphasis' on a smaller opponent, it does not matter in BJJ.

when you put a much bigger wrestler w/sub defense on top of you, it becomes important

And besides, they were both the same weight, so who cares?

bj's natural weight is not 170. he is not nearly as strong as gsp is. plus, there is no way that both were 170 at fight time. i would imagine that gsp had quite a few pounds on him

I don't know if your laughing because you don't belive me? But here is the proof.

thought you were talking about gsp's bjj. i know that bj penn's bjj is some of the best out there in mma

[TJ Hooker]

By your logic, Anderson Silva would then be a small 205er.
Meaning the others should be stronger than him?

GSP is stronger because he is stronger. Has nothing to do with weight.
BJ Penn is strong as fuck too. He can jump out of the water with no hands
and land on his feet no problem. His legs are like tree trunks.

Passing the guard is technique. Think Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir I
Brock was landing big, big shots--However, when trying to pass the guard,
it was a different story. Can you argue that Mir is stronger than Lesnar?
I don't think so.

Besides that, what did you think of the Amir vs Hendricks?
I thought it was bullshit. 5 to the back of the head? come on now

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

By your logic, Anderson Silva would then be a small 205er.

not necessarily

GSP is stronger because he is stronger. Has nothing to do with weight.

could a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either

Passing the guard is technique. Think Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir I
Brock was landing big, big shots--However, when trying to pass the guard,
it was a different story. Can you argue that Mir is stronger than Lesnar?
I don't think so.

could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?

Besides that, what did you think of the Amir vs Hendricks?

didn't see it. heard miraggiagilalati was the ref. not surprised

[TJ Hooker]

uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.

could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?

 There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.

For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.

[TheGodEmperor]

uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.

could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?

 There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.

For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.

technique is the name of the game to a certain extent. But if you have two fighters who are around equal technically, then the heavier one gets a huge edge.

In pure self-defense, technique IS the game. The whole point is to succeed against someone bigger than you. That's what many martial arts are designed for.

[TJ Hooker]

uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.

could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?

 There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.

For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.

technique is the name of the game to a certain extent. But if you have two fighters who are around equal technically, then the heavier one gets a huge edge.

In pure self-defense, technique IS the game. The whole point is to succeed against someone bigger than you. That's what many martial arts are designed for.

Right. Which is why I said, for the most part. As fun as over-generalizations go, I couldn't exactly be 100 percent committed to that idea.
Size does matter.But in my opinion, has to be significant.

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.

then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight

There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard.

firstly, that's really taking a section of the fight completely out of context. gsp had spent most of his time abusing bj penn before he was even in bj's guard. secondly, these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.

Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him

that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.

[TheGodEmperor]

Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.

then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight

There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard.

firstly, that's really taking a section of the fight completely out of context. gsp had spent most of his time abusing bj penn before he was even in bj's guard. secondly, these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.

Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him

that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.

Which is why GSP had the edge over bj. Because he's bigger and stronger, and has equal ground game, if not better. There's no arguing with that. But that doesn't mean that GSP doesn't have the best ground game in ufc.

[TJ Hooker]

then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight

Interesting point. For awhile, and a long while at that, there were no weight classes. Think Royce Gracie. And how much did it
matter then? Which is why I still don't see why there is weight classes, other than for people the size of Brock Lesnar. And most fighters
aren't even at the weight they measured at. It is all logisitics. Many of them will run 8 miles on the treadmill, have no water, wear a sauna suit, swallow fish pills and then go weigh in. It is just something to "match-up" and prevent the neigh-sayers who lose, " Oh well he lost because he has 10 pounds on the guy!" Nevermind an amazing superman punch.

these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.

Like I said, GSP is naturally just stronger, no weight involved. Just as Sean Sherk is stronger than Penn. But did it matter?  :thumbsup:

that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.

Right. He is an amazing grappler. But there are certain aspects to grappling. A certain area may be lacking in someone's ground game. Obviously, Georges' strength and best thing is explosiveness in the guard in passing. He is at that level to take Penn like that. A lot of grapplers two classes above Penn are inferior, or rather he makes them look inferior, and in my opinion, in a straight grappling match, could take them. His flexiblity, wit, and movement are second to none.



Oh and back to the original premise.

Which is why GSP had the edge over bj. Because he's bigger and stronger, and has equal ground game, if not better. There's no arguing with that. But that doesn't mean that GSP doesn't have the best ground game in ufc

This.

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

Think Royce Gracie. And how much did it matter then? Which is why I still don't see why there is weight classes

it did. royce gracie had something that no one else had really seen at the time

Many of them will run 8 miles on the treadmill, have no water, wear a sauna suit, swallow fish pills and then go weigh in. It is just something to "match-up"

yes, i know

Like I said, GSP is naturally just stronger, no weight involved. Just as Sean Sherk is stronger than Penn. But did it matter?

yes, except weight plays a huge role in leverage. sean sherk is an inferior fighter.

This.

thankfully this is a pound for pound comparison, and bj dominates his weight class on the ground at a similar level to gsp