The FA Cup

[manutd.]

Wow, Premier League clubs make so much money just from playing live. That's cool how the FA gives out money to the winning club. Probably because most of the higher clubs don't care about this tournament, and are more focused on the CL or EPL title.

[^_^]

Most of the higher clubs don't care about this tournament? It's silverware, there is no reason for any club to not care about any tournament.

[manutd.]

Well, no, sorry, I wrote that wrong. I meant that, for example, Liverpool today didn't field their best team, although it was decent enough, and they only got a draw out of it. I guess by offering money there's even more on the line for these higher teams rather than only fielding some of their best players in the early rounds.

[Adi]

It's a good way to give young players and backups some first team experience. Too bad lots of risk comes with it.

[cigar omar]

Good thing here at Chelsea we leave nothing to chance.

[Buckwheat156]

i dont think its that they dont care about tournaments. its just that they have a higher priority with other things. like people think that no one cares about the carling cup. it is just a way for clubs to showcase younger talent. those younger lads that are playing in it take it as high priority. and some teams even put their first team in it.

[manutd.]

FA Cup Fourth Round Draw
Arsenal v Stoke City/Newcastle
Coventry v Walsall/Millwall
Oldham v Huddersfield Town
Wigan v Chelsea
Luton/Liverpool v Swansea/Havant & Waterlooville
Southend v Barnsley
Southampton v Norwich/Bury
Man Utd v Tottenham/Reading
Portsmouth v Plymouth
Derby/Sheff Wed v Preston
Watford v Wolves
Peterborough v Charlton/West Brom
Sheff Utd v West Ham/Man City
Mansfield v Middlesbrough
Tranmere/Hereford v Cardiff

Fourth round ties will be played on 26 and 27 January.

[moby]

the f.a cup is full of suprises. big teams lose a lot of times

[Tito]

Is The Cup Half Full Or Half Empty?

For romantics and traditionalists, the weekend's Third Round of the FA Cup was a reaffirmation of faith in the notion that the little guy can come out on top. In today's money-driven scenario in which the rich get richer and the poor, if they're lucky, just get by, the weekend's results in the world's oldest knockout competition offered a glorious nod in the direction of good old-fashioned unpredictability.

Six Premier League clubs are already out of this season's competition.  Only six are definitely through to the Fourth Round.  Eight are involved in replays and at least two of them will certainly fall; four more could conceivably follow them through the exit door.

Overall, the 32 Third Round ties produced 14 instances of a team beating or forcing a replay against higher division opposition.

Coventry City, Oldham Athletic, Huddersfield Town and Sheffield United all eliminated Premier League opponents. while Luton Town, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol Rovers and Stoke City live to fight another day against top-flight teams.   

There were other notable results too: non-league Havant & Waterlooville held League One leaders Swansea City to a draw in Swansea, while Mansfield Town - 91st in the League and without an away win in League Two all season - beat League One Brighton away after having lost their last five games on the road.

Darren (son of Alex) Ferguson steered League Two Peterborough United to a dominant away display that saw Championship Colchester United dumped out of the Cup, and although Chasetown's FA Cup adventure is over for this season, they made history by being the lowest-ranked side ever to reach this stage of the competition.

So, was this all cause for celebration (except for the fans of the beaten teams)? Was it confirmation that the FA Cup is alive and kicking, and that the essence of knockout football - that every team has a chance in the 'great leveller' of a one-off cup-tie - is impervious to the pernicious influence of money? Has the FA Cup been given a polish after having been persistently tarnished in recent years?  Well, yes and no...

For neutrals and fans of the smaller clubs there is nothing like a good old-fashioned giant-killing to restore a bit of faith. Who doesn't derive a little satisfaction, even if vicariously, from seeing the mighty humbled on occasion? And the rich tapestry of the FA Cup's heritage is woven with heroic giant-killing acts that provided a fanfare for the common man - from lowly Walsall's seismic defeat of all-conquering Arsenal in 1933, to non-league Hereford United's muddy mauling of then First Division Newcastle United in 1972, to the Wimbledon Crazy Gang's refusal to be cowed by aristocratic Liverpool in the 1988 final at Wembley.

There have been fewer and fewer such upsets in recent years, where logic and the form book have been stood on their heads. So to have a Third Round littered with top-flight casualties was a reminder that the People's Cup can still make the people's game appear democratic, albeit fleetingly.

However, at the risk of pooping the party, it is worth getting a few things into perspective. Strip out the romance and the euphoria and the FA Cup is showing signs of malaise that reflect the game as a whole in England now.

Consider this, for example. The biggest 'giant' to be slain at the weekend was Everton, by enterprising Oldham. Everton are among the more credible challengers to the oligarchy that is the Premier League's 'Big Four'. And those Big Four are still in the Cup. Holders Chelsea, last year's runners-up Manchester United, and Arsenal all won, with varying degrees of comfort, while Liverpool continued their tendency to shoot themselves in the foot this season by being held at Luton, but have the cushion of an Anfield replay to put things right.   

Without wishing to belittle in any way the achievements of Huddersfield, Coventry or Sheffield United, if their victims - respectively Birmingham, Blackburn and Bolton - inflict a defeat on any of the Big Four in Premier League action it is greeted as a bit of a giant-killing. As Qui-Gon Jinn said in Star Wars: "There's always a bigger fish."

The real giants remain, and cynics looking at a list of FA Cup winners and noting that since Wimbledon's triumph in 1988, only Tottenham (1991) and Everton (1995) outside of the Big Four have actually won the trophy, will conclude that this year's Third Round results didn't so much herald a new equality as make it even more likely that one of the Big Four will be victorious at Wembley again, because some of their potentially more troublesome opponents have now been removed.

Consider too, the context in which the Third Round matches were played. In past years, before the genie of the Premier League was let out of the FA's lamp, every club in the land revered the FA Cup and regarded the quest to win it as a great adventure. Everyone gave it their best shot, and the disappointment at bowing out - whether early on or towards the latter stages - was almost as intense as the thrill of actually winning it.

For any player, playing in an FA Cup final was regarded as the pinnacle of his career; managers too dreamed of leading out their teams at Wembley.  Players may still harbour such FA Cup ambitions - they realise that, if they're lucky, they may only get a dozen cracks at winning the Cup throughout their careers. But clubs' agendas, and therefore those of their managers, have changed.

Premier League membership is such a financial imperative that survival supersedes  all other priorities. And that creates an uncomfortable irony. For most (all but four?) of the Premier League clubs, the only realistic hope of silverware each season is in the domestic cups. Yet most are willing to sacrifice the chance of glory (and the associated Uefa Cup qualification) in Carling Cup or FA Cup in order to 'protect' their best players for the rigours of a relegation battle or a push for mid-table safety. So they field weakened sides.

It makes perfect sense financially: the Premier League is where it's at, revenue-wise. But what does a typical football fan dream of seeing his or her team do? How about lift a trophy?

And for the supporters of a team like Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers or Birmingham City, say, is the prospect of one more season of top-flight survival or mid-table mediocrity preferable to the risk of going for it in the Cups and possibly experiencing the adrenalin rush of winning one of them?

It is understandable that the Big Four's priorities are now qualifying for the Champions League via a top-four Premier League finish, and then going as far as possible on the biggest European stage. But that should have made winning the two domestic cups a more viable proposition for the rest.

Instead, their strategies for the season are formulated by fear of failure rather than planning for victory. It's a mindset that has helped to devalue the FA Cup, and that in turn has helped to devalue those upsets that do occur. Previously, smaller clubs beating a 'giant' really had achieved something: they'd pitted their wits against the best that a 'big' team could offer, and come out on top on the day. Now, they may have beaten the second or third best that big team can offer.  They are often playing the famous 'name' of the club rather than that club's array of top stars.

It is still a heartening achievement for an Oldham or a Coventry, a Huddersfield or a Bristol Rovers to beat or hold a Premier League outfit. But it always sounds a little sad when the manager of a minnow feels the need to say pre-match of their 'giant' opponents : "Whatever team they put out we know there'll still be internationals among them and it will be a massive test for us...."

The fans, of course, are not fooled, though often fleeced. The Third Round of the FA Cup used to be the most charismatic Saturday in English football.  Full houses were virtually guaranteed at every tie. Indeed, attendances were often several thousand higher than for typical league matches. That situation has now been reversed, and the swathes of empty seats at many ties at the weekend made depressing viewing.

On the one hand, fans who know their club is not taking the FA Cup seriously will ask themselves why they should bother to turn up and support them.  On the other hand, the hard facts of economic life dictate that fans must make hard choices. The cost of Premier League season tickets now is in many cases exorbitant, and often excludes cup ties, which must therefore be purchased separately.

Rather than have empty seats, surely clubs would be better advised slashing ticket prices for children, or even families, for FA Cup ties, at least in the early rounds, and packing them in to generate old-style Cup fever?

Meanwhile, the Fourth Round draw was not exactly kind to the smaller clubs - though Havant & Waterlooville have ten days or so to dream of a possible day out at Anfield. Oldham's and Huddersfield's reward for beating Premier League clubs was a tie against each other, which seemed like Lady Luck had given them a slap in the face.     

Similarly Coventry - who thrashed Blackburn and can now get ready to entertain Walsall or Millwall.

Sheffield United will be at home to the winners of the Manchester City-West Ham replay - and in view of the acrimonious drama at the end of last season when the Blades were relegated and the Hammers avoided a points deduction, it will be interesting if Alan Curbishley's side are the visitors to Bramall Lane.

Apart - just possibly - from Liverpool v Havant & Waterlooville - the tie of the round could be Manchester United v Tottenham, assuming Spurs beat Reading. And if Newcastle overcome Stoke at the second attempt, an Arsenal-Newcastle tie will be eagerly anticipated.

That would be a repeat of their Carling Cup Third Round meeting, when Arsenal's so-called 'youngsters' beat a full-strength Magpies XI 2-0.  That is one difference between the Big Four - or certainly Arsenal - and other Premier League sides: their "weakened" side is scarcely any weaker than the full-strength version.

And while the fact there will be at least seven non-Premier League teams in the last 16 of the FA Cup is encouraging, the more significant - and ominous - fact is that the Big Four were kept apart in the Fourth Round draw, heightening the possibility that one of them will again lift the trophy in May.

The cream always tends to rise, but it would be perfect for the competition if a genuine outsider did actually manage to win it again.

Having said that, if one did, critics would claim that the standard of English football was slipping.

It seems the tournament can't win; and it's hard to tell now whether the Cup is half full or half empty.

LINK: http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=539878

[manutd.]

Were the rematches played yet?

[Chunkchenko]

no carling cup matches are being played now.

Yesterday
Chelsea 2 - 1 Everton
Shaun Wright Phillips 26th Minute
Yakuba Aiyegbeni 64th Minute
Joleon Lescott 93rd Minute (own goal)

Today
Arsenal 0 - 1 Tottenham Kick Off 19:45
Jermaine Jenas 37th Minute

[manutd.]

That sucks so much for Lescott giving away the game.

Are those games final?