Style vs Hardcore

[Adi]

Style is ahead now.

[Olly NZ Frestyle]

Hardcore is just kicking the ball straight up and throwing your legs around it, the skill-full part is what your legs are doing, not what you are doing with the ball. Freestyle use to be about control/creativity/transitions/style.. now days the focus is so much on getting that next hard trick, most don't care for style or execution, if they can somehow throw their legs to rotate again in the air. Even if it is incredibly ugly... repetitive.. i  respect hardcore and i think FS needs hardcore stylers but i wish other styles were respected equally and trained equally.

Style 100%

[jabarinho]

Hardcore is just kicking the ball straight up and throwing your legs around it, the skill-full part is what your legs are doing, not what you are doing with the ball.

Hardcore is more than this. While doing a hardcore combo the ball must be the correct height and distance which needs a good touch and control and it must be done while moving at high speed, which makes control harder. And some tricks create a lot of spin which is hard to control sometimes.

I know some people may disagree but i think hardcore needs a lot of control, touch and precision.

I think some guys do nt combos and other hardcore moves so easily that some people may think it does not need a lot of ball control.

[Olly NZ Frestyle]

Totally agree bro! ^^ just saying, its more about what the leg can do rather what you can do with the ball. I think everyone needs to respect all styles, i just get mad when people hate on my vids for not doing around the worlds. I do the tricks i enjoy to do and that is what FREEstyle is all about ;)

[redsforlife]

haha, i knew someone would hate on Olly's description of hardcore lowers. Obviously, hardcore lowers are much more physical than technical. The technical level isn't really what makes much of the tricks or combos hard, it's the power and speed needed to pull this off.

Hardcore guy, don't take that as a criticism. I don't know why you would take it this way. It's extremely impressive to see people move their legs this quickly.

[jabarinho]

@redsforlife: I'm not a hardcore guy and I didn't take it as criticism. I also was not hating because i know some people see it differently. I was just saying hardcore is more than speed and power.

I don't think either of us are in a position to judge hardcore technique. But from my view the is a lot of technique and ball control in it. To move your feet fast while controlling the ball and get the right placement to continue a combo you have to have a great touch and ball contol.

From what i know placement of the ball is very important in these combos, which needs crazy ball control. Fast legs mean nothing without this.

[Knnthh]

haha, i knew someone would hate on Olly's description of hardcore lowers. Obviously, hardcore lowers are much more physical than technical. The technical level isn't really what makes much of the tricks or combos hard, it's the power and speed needed to pull this off.

Hardcore guy, don't take that as a criticism. I don't know why you would take it this way. It's extremely impressive to see people move their legs this quickly.

You must sure know alot about hardcore, dont you? :D

[redsforlife]

Knnth- Hardcore guys are sometimes quick to hate on non-hardcore guys talking about hardcore lowers, but they are also very quick to hate on non-hardcore freestylers period. Now, I never once said I'm an expert on hardcore lowers, but when we break it down it's just simple technique and physics. If you can do the basic  lowers techniques, you have the technique to do the harder ones if you understand the physics to it. Easy way to look at it is if you can do 10atws, you have the technique to do 100, you just don't have the stamina.

The difference between doing latw and patw is mainly you need a higher touch and a quicker foot. Now, you definitely need a proper touch, but it's the speed of the foot that is difficult.

matw and amatw nt tricks for the most part are another example. All matw or amatw nt tricks are the same technique repeated. It's just extremely hard physically to find the power to do the matw or amatw cleanly to set up the next matw or amatw.

True masters of hardcore lowers are exceptions to this rule in some ways. They combine the super quick and powerful movements with a extremely wide variety of tricks. This is an example of much more technical parts of hardcore lowers.

Before you hate on me for this, just think about it. It's really a matter of simple physics than a knowledge or ability in freestyle. Physics don't lie. I'll be the 1st to say that hardcore lowers are extremely impressive, especially from the masters. I just think that other styles can be just as impressive, and simple physics are how you figure out how anyone is doing a move.

[redsforlife]

Here's another thought. Compare freestylers like Gautier and Skora. Gautier's tricks are much technically harder than Skora's, but Skora's tricks are much physically difficult than Gautier's.

Which one you like better is up to you. I am personally a fan of both.

[Knnthh]

Nah man, don't take me wrong i'm not a hater on non-hardcore freestyle(rs). I love the style of MS as much as hardcore lowers, i just dont like to do it myself :D
I just dont agree that the creative kind of freestyle is harder technically than hardcore lowers, both are equally hard imo

[redsforlife]

I respect that opinion. I am just curious if you got my point. I said they were equal, but different aspects of tricks make them harder. That's why I used the Gautier and Skora comparison. Neither of them are capable of doing each others routines. Gautier's tricks have extreme technical intricacy and many different variations. Skora's lowers in particular show his amazing athleticism which very few people can match. He has amazing explosive athleticism.

My whole point is they are different, but equal.

[Onas]

Now the main theme of the thread changed a bit. We were talking about people that do 3 rev tricks without mastering the basic moves/combos - we were basically talking about lowers.
And now we are comparing Skora and Gautier, lol 

I think this is also affecting the poll.