There is no God

[stefanfreestylez]

Eric Clapton is God. Therefore God exists.

But for real, here is one of the oldest proofs for god's existence (it's flawed, but you're not supposed to know that). Lets see what you all make of it:

Rene Descartes' Ontological "Proof of God." is, roughly:

   1. I exist

   2. I have in my mind the notion of a perfect being

   3. An imperfect being, like myself, cannot think up the notion of a perfect being

   4. Therefore the notion of a perfect being must have originated from the perfect being himself

   5. A perfect being would not be perfect if it did not exist

   6. Therefore a perfect being must exist

wow thats the gayest proof ever :lol: ur so stupid :lol:

[AznMagic]

Eric Clapton is God. Therefore God exists.

But for real, here is one of the oldest proofs for god's existence (it's flawed, but you're not supposed to know that). Lets see what you all make of it:

Rene Descartes' Ontological "Proof of God." is, roughly:

   1. I exist

   2. I have in my mind the notion of a perfect being

   3. An imperfect being, like myself, cannot think up the notion of a perfect being

   4. Therefore the notion of a perfect being must have originated from the perfect being himself

   5. A perfect being would not be perfect if it did not exist

   6. Therefore a perfect being must exist

wow thats the gayest proof ever :lol: ur so stupid :lol:

ur a thousand times stupider to be calling him stupid because of that post.  did you even read the fuckin post properly?  smarten up dumbass.

[manutd.]

Haha, nice one Eddy.

 :lol:

[AznMagic]

my personal belief is that god is the entirety of reality and the universe and existence of everything itself.  they are not seperate, and god is not a seperate higher being that created it.

if god is everywhere at the same time at all times, this only makes sense to me.

it's an imperfect and flawed belief, but then again every other belief out there is also just that.  the only thing that makes timeless sense, i believe, is what bruce lee said.

"Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing." - Bruce Lee

no offence to Bruce Lee but this is a cliche: If Truth is constantly changing then we cannot ever know for more than a point in time. Following that logic, we can't know if truth is changing, and we can't know that we can't know, etc..it's an eternal progression of ignorance, which is a fairly bleak view for humanity, and which refutes any statement either you, or I, or Bruce Lee ever made.

My philosophy is rooted in language. Maybe later I'll do a copy paste of my thought, but my philosophical musings, sadly, are on another computer. So until then, you'll have to wait.

but that's just the thing man.  he believes in things being dynamic, constantly living, breathing, changing, and never one solid stiff static thing.

everything is a never ending process, a progression.  it's not bleak, it's quite the exact opposite of that actually!

That had nothing to do with what I just said. The implications of my logical conclusion are as follow:

1) we can never realize that we are hanging
2) we cannot be self-aware
3) we cannot understand the past
4) we are unaware that we are unaware
5) our thoughts travel in a self-contradictory path and render themselves pointless

u shud do a bit more research first.  this is the entire quote if you must know, which you do.

"Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing. Awareness is without choice, without demand, without anxiety; in that state of mind, there is perception. To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person. Awareness has no frontier; it is giving of your whole being, without exclusion." - Bruce Lee

Thats all well and good, and a beautiful vision. But. Mr. Lee has made several transgressions in informal logic which I hope he backs up. He has used a few loaded terms which need to be defined in order to validate the argument:
Truth, awareness, choice, anxiety, state, mind, perception, awareness, being.

dude ur being way too much of a robot about this.  allow ur mind the flexibility man.  this doesn't have to be talking about one specific narrowed down topic or thing.  he may have, but i don't know that and i've interpreted it for myself the way it makes most sense to me.  and as i've said before, this is more of a quote on the martial arts side, but interpreted in the correct ways, i believe it can apply easily to a lot of other different things.

Well of course, but logic is the basis of philosophy, so if I'm gonna pick apart a statement philosophically, I'm gonna do it right. This was his philosophy behind Jeet Kune Do, am I right?

it can still be logical if you open the statement up to a variety of other possibilities rather than pinning it down and restricting it to one specific meaning.

yes i believe so.

[TheGodEmperor]

my personal belief is that god is the entirety of reality and the universe and existence of everything itself.  they are not seperate, and god is not a seperate higher being that created it.

if god is everywhere at the same time at all times, this only makes sense to me.

it's an imperfect and flawed belief, but then again every other belief out there is also just that.  the only thing that makes timeless sense, i believe, is what bruce lee said.

"Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing." - Bruce Lee

no offence to Bruce Lee but this is a cliche: If Truth is constantly changing then we cannot ever know for more than a point in time. Following that logic, we can't know if truth is changing, and we can't know that we can't know, etc..it's an eternal progression of ignorance, which is a fairly bleak view for humanity, and which refutes any statement either you, or I, or Bruce Lee ever made.

My philosophy is rooted in language. Maybe later I'll do a copy paste of my thought, but my philosophical musings, sadly, are on another computer. So until then, you'll have to wait.

but that's just the thing man.  he believes in things being dynamic, constantly living, breathing, changing, and never one solid stiff static thing.

everything is a never ending process, a progression.  it's not bleak, it's quite the exact opposite of that actually!

That had nothing to do with what I just said. The implications of my logical conclusion are as follow:

1) we can never realize that we are hanging
2) we cannot be self-aware
3) we cannot understand the past
4) we are unaware that we are unaware
5) our thoughts travel in a self-contradictory path and render themselves pointless

u shud do a bit more research first.  this is the entire quote if you must know, which you do.

"Truth has no path. Truth is living and, therefore, changing. Awareness is without choice, without demand, without anxiety; in that state of mind, there is perception. To know oneself is to study oneself in action with another person. Awareness has no frontier; it is giving of your whole being, without exclusion." - Bruce Lee

Thats all well and good, and a beautiful vision. But. Mr. Lee has made several transgressions in informal logic which I hope he backs up. He has used a few loaded terms which need to be defined in order to validate the argument:
Truth, awareness, choice, anxiety, state, mind, perception, awareness, being.

dude ur being way too much of a robot about this.  allow ur mind the flexibility man.  this doesn't have to be talking about one specific narrowed down topic or thing.  he may have, but i don't know that and i've interpreted it for myself the way it makes most sense to me.  and as i've said before, this is more of a quote on the martial arts side, but interpreted in the correct ways, i believe it can apply easily to a lot of other different things.

Well of course, but logic is the basis of philosophy, so if I'm gonna pick apart a statement philosophically, I'm gonna do it right. This was his philosophy behind Jeet Kune Do, am I right?

it can still be logical if you open the statement up to a variety of other possibilities rather than pinning it down and restricting it to one specific meaning.

yes i believe so.

give me an application then, because I can't seem to think of one (I'm not being facetious -- for real).

@stefan -- it arises from the view that there is a hierarchy of perfection and imperfection between beings, the humans being among the closest to god, but still imperfect. And it is impossible to conceive of something that transcends one's own mind unless it already exists. The argument's flaw was that it slipped its conclusion into its premise.  :thumbsup:

[AznMagic]

give me an application then, because I can't seem to think of one (I'm not being facetious -- for real).

well about truth being living and changing... one obvious example that comes to mind is... at first ppl didn't know what existed beyond their own villages, next their countries... ppl thought the earth was flat... then we found out it was round... then found out it was not even a perfectly round spherical shape.... then we found out all the other shit in the universe we never knew about before... then we began to theorize about higher dimensions we can't perceive in our own realities.

that's one example of truth always changing.  please do NOT take this as the ultimate example to base his philosophy off of, but it was the first example that came to mind in terms of applying it to different things it probably wasn't originally intended for.

[TheGodEmperor]

give me an application then, because I can't seem to think of one (I'm not being facetious -- for real).

well about truth being living and changing... one obvious example that comes to mind is... at first ppl didn't know what existed beyond their own villages, next their countries... ppl thought the earth was flat... then we found out it was round... then found out it was not even a perfectly round spherical shape.... then we found out all the other shit in the universe we never knew about before... then we began to theorize about higher dimensions we can't perceive in our own realities.

that's one example of truth always changing.  please do NOT take this as the ultimate example to base his philosophy off of, but it was the first example that came to mind in terms of applying it to different things it probably wasn't originally intended for.

ahh so you're saying that truth is what we make it, and is the result of consensus perception as opposed to statements about what is and isn't set in metaphysical stone. I get you now. That IS one application.

[AznMagic]

give me an application then, because I can't seem to think of one (I'm not being facetious -- for real).

well about truth being living and changing... one obvious example that comes to mind is... at first ppl didn't know what existed beyond their own villages, next their countries... ppl thought the earth was flat... then we found out it was round... then found out it was not even a perfectly round spherical shape.... then we found out all the other shit in the universe we never knew about before... then we began to theorize about higher dimensions we can't perceive in our own realities.

that's one example of truth always changing.  please do NOT take this as the ultimate example to base his philosophy off of, but it was the first example that came to mind in terms of applying it to different things it probably wasn't originally intended for.

ahh so you're saying that truth is what we make it, and is the result of consensus perception as opposed to statements about what is and isn't set in metaphysical stone. I get you now. That IS one application.

yup.  continuing with the other example... i heard a very smart physicist use some example to explain perceiving things in higher dimensions.

like, we are fish in a pond, and the pond is the universe.  but since we can only perceive things in 3 dimensions, that is all we can see, but if we can see things in 4 or 5 dimensions maybe we could see outside the pond(universe) and see that there are several different ponds and lakes and stuff out there we didn't know existed before.

or something like that.

[L_I_S]

this topic should be closed. its beliefs vs beliefs. stupid thread.

[AznMagic]

this topic should be closed. its beliefs vs beliefs. stupid thread.

as long as people don't take it too seroiusly and don't purposely offend each other, i don't see the problem in a good healthy discussion.  much more intellectually interesting than most other things on this forum.  let's class it up a bit eh?

[TheGodEmperor]

this topic should be closed. its beliefs vs beliefs. stupid thread.

as long as people don't take it too seroiusly and don't purposely offend each other, i don't see the problem in a good healthy discussion.  much more intellectually interesting than most other things on this forum.  let's class it up a bit eh?

yeah like take the discussion between eddy and I as an example  :thumbsup:

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

this topic should be closed. its beliefs vs beliefs. stupid thread.

no

no one has said anything ridiculously stupid yet (well, ridiculously offensive).  it has been a relatively subued, genuinely constructive discussion.  that's why the thread is still open