What's the worst thing to happen to the freestyle community?

[redsforlife]

Is it possible that the community outgrew forums?  Maybe it got too big that it didn't need to rely on a forum, instead it went mainstream (social media, live events, and tons of other outlets).

Facebook groups is what did it. Most kids these days just find it easier to do everything on Facebook. However, I actually think the community itself is still fairly small. If it starts to get really big, a forum would actually probably do better.

[L_I_S]

It's not about the forum, it's about making a split in the community.
As for casuals..like I said, there's a difference between them and noobs. Noobs evolve, casuals only evolve enough to make their friends think 'cool!!!', zero intrinsic satisfaction/motivation.

[Christof]

I think you have to consider that the circumstances substantially changed from 5 years ago to now:

- Back then, there were much less freestylers, and with no or just a few others in the area, eager to talk about freestyle and a forum is perfect to unite them.

But today, most freestylers made some friends and talk to them, with no need to include others in their discussions, why would they? What could a noob contribute?.

- Also the level was much worse, what allowed other people to keep up, and becoming the best freestyler in your country was a realistic goal.

But today, you Elias say, noobs just want to learn tricks to impress their friends with no dedication to freestyle. But what should their goal be? Becoming the best in the country and win RBSS in their country is impossible for most countries, and with being one out of very many, it is hard to get recognition of other freestylers. Before my old youtube channel was deleted in 2009, my freestyle videos would easily reach 10'000 views after a few months, one even had 400'000 views. Today, nobody cares really.

[Robert]

that more and more people doing stuff like backflipcatch, handstandneckstall etc. for me these tricks are only acrobatic moves, not freestyle tricks ^^

[L_I_S]

But today, you Elias say, noobs just want to learn tricks to impress their friends with no dedication to freestyle. But what should their goal be? Becoming the best in the country and win RBSS in their country is impossible for most countries, and with being one out of very many, it is hard to get recognition of other freestylers. Before my old youtube channel was deleted in 2009, my freestyle videos would easily reach 10'000 views after a few months, one even had 400'000 views. Today, nobody cares really.

I think self motivation and intrinsic satisfaction should be the major roles that keep you freestyling, not revenue or to impress their friends as their main goal.
My goal when I first started was to learn as many tricks as I could. These days I see noobs wanting to learn LP moves and show tricks for the sake of showing off, not because they like them.

[redsforlife]

that more and more people doing stuff like backflipcatch, handstandneckstall etc. for me these tricks are only acrobatic moves, not freestyle tricks ^^

Not trying to sound mean, but this is stupid. Those are fine freestyle moves. Now, if you  literally are only capable of acrobatic moves, you are not a very good freestyler. However, they can definitely spice up anyone's routine. There is nothing wrong with them.

I actually think some of the bugs BF had a while back really contributed to this forum losing activity. I remember for a long time I even thought it was permanently down. That was the reason I quit posting for probably the longest time since I became a member. Forums can still work. It's just we are almost back at the beginning despite the forum being several years old and used to have many active members.

Personally, I think being more open minded towards "noobs" would be a  good thing. We were all "noobs" once.

[Adi]

I think you're right, Jason.  The downtime, hacking, etc really caused issues.  Sometimes if you get away from a forum for a week it can be enough to quit for good.

[Marko]

I really see no reason why would Mac be the worst thing to happen. I'm not trying to kiss his ass or anything, but he gives his best to make the forum and the l2f site working.

About casuals and ect. If they only learn 2 or 3 tricks just to impress their friends or some bitches, why the fuck is that a problem. He won't post on a forum, he won't be considered a freestyler and isn't a part of the community. I teached my friend to do tatw and amatw, is he a part of the community?

About competitions, I'm sad to agree with Kenneth here, many guys enter competitions then post in the comp topics saying "ah sorry man, I didn't train in a week", "I forgot the deadline was yesterday", "I had sex with Beyonce and Paris Hilton so I couldn't edit and upload the video" ect.

[L_I_S]

I really see no reason why would Mac be the worst thing to happen. I'm not trying to kiss his ass or anything, but he gives his best to make the forum and the l2f site working.

About casuals and ect. If they only learn 2 or 3 tricks just to impress their friends or some bitches, why the fuck is that a problem. He won't post on a forum, he won't be considered a freestyler and isn't a part of the community. I teached my friend to do tatw and amatw, is he a part of the community?

About competitions, I'm sad to agree with Kenneth here, many guys enter competitions then post in the comp topics saying "ah sorry man, I didn't train in a week", "I forgot the deadline was yesterday", "I had sex with Beyonce and Paris Hilton so I couldn't edit and upload the video" ect.

First part, I mentioned already, it's about the division weakening the community, not the forum it self.

Second part, they make the community shit, the quality of posts diminish(your friend might not post, but others will). Catering to them will be part of the community. Catering to casuals means that actual beginners will not be looked after(either being mistaken for casuals, or that the tutorials will be too basic which is perfect for casuals).

Third part, 100% agree. When I used to go to the competition section(I think there wasn't even a section at one point) I always saw that there were 8 competitors and 3 people uploaded videos, 2  uploaded there's late and the rest didn't even bother and came up with excuses. I think I joined 3 competitions that were never completed and then I gave up.

[Marko]

Well, people who want to give to freestyle just because they love it, will not be disturbed by having 2 forums. It's just too bad that top freestylers don't post anymore, here or on l2f forum. I read some epic posts written by top freestylers. I'd so love them back here, even tho I came here when they were gone.

Hm, didn't think about that. You really made me think and I still can't respond to that, it's a issue which can't be solved easy, it's a hard task because you can't tell somebody they're not allowed to post on a forum. Mentality is the game in that one.

I really hate that. Not saying I didn't do that, I didn't upload a vid for the next stage of beginner lowers comp (I think it's top 16) but I made it clear straight away, the reason wasn't me being a lazy fuck to upload or anything, and I think the place was filled. I can't really see the point of starting something you can't finish. I seriously hope people don't have that kind of policy in life as well. Even if there were no spectacular awesome super dooper prizes, and you can't expect anything, we have 2 forums, not 2 oil companies, entering the competition is meaning more and more training, improving. Sadly, not so many people understand that.

[BigMac]

It's really disappointing to see my name brought up in the 'worst thing to happen to freestyle' thread, it very much feels like a direct attack towards me, from you, Lis.

I don't even know how to begin to reply to this. I know for a fact I have helped a lot of people and although many people disagree that I started a new forum I had good reasons for it, the main one being that is forum wasn't doing a good enough job due to server issues and other things (as Adi and Jason pointed out).

My goal in freestyle is to help it grow, whether it be by online tutorials (which by the way are obviously catered to inspire complete newbies to freestyle, not sure why I am being criticised for that.) by blogging, writing articles, keeping my website updated and other videos.

I started videos of the month which has had a great response and I think as forums are on their way out it's a effective and accessible way to see what's going on in freestyle (Football Freestyle - June 2013)

Also I plan on making more videos like this in Prague, showcasing the sport to new people but also making it enjoyable for freestylers to watch ( World Football Freestyle Championships 2013 - London )

I am just trying to bridge the gap between 'us and them', times are changing and I don't see why you wouldn't want new people to discover freestyle. Even if they get bored of it after 2 weeks.

Like I say, it really saddens me that I (or Learn2Freestyle, not sure which you are referring to) has been brought up instantly. It feels like a personal attack towards me and doesn't feel nice at all.

[redsforlife]

It's really disappointing to see my name brought up in the 'worst thing to happen to freestyle' thread, it very much feels like a direct attack towards me, from you, Lis.

I think blaming you or your forum is pretty damn silly. Of course that's not the problem. Now, do I think the forum itself has improved the freestyle community that much, not really. However, L2F on the whole probably has improved the community as it has great exposure on Youtube. Do I think they are the best videos out there, no, but that's irrelevant. They do their purpose.

Hey Mac, it's just a minority that are going full retard on a subject that think this. It's just like how a minority of Americans for some reason hate me. It's even more lame when you don't actually communicate with them to find out they talk shit about you.

I do personally think 1 forum is more than enough, and BF is the one that has the greater history. I think it'd be easier to revive than to grow L2F forum.