English Premier League 12/13

[Christof]

Wow, you are clueless, and you obviously just listened to some biased report.

The fact that Jonjo connects inside the right foot cleanly means he had some control. I can understand the argument of being slightly out of control, but that's at most a yellow card. His left foot is clearly on the ground. Far more on the ground than the Kompany challenge. Also, you completely ignored the fact that Evans made a worse challenge. He clearly jumped in two footed studs up. If you watch closely, his grimace actually comes from the force of his fall when his arse hits the ground. He's perfectly fine before that. By law, a two footed tackle must be a straight red card. I'm not really seeing where Jonjo's tackle was so dangerous other than the force he came in with. He actually did the necessary thing to make it less dangerous by coming in with the inside of his right foot. Evans came in straight with both feet studs up. In my opinion, Jonjo was the one in danger, but he came in hard enough that it didn't effect him. If I was the official, I personally would have allowed play to continue, because I feel Jonjo made a clean challenge. It actually took me a second look to realize that Evans committed a two footed challenge.

Kompnay winning the ball was never what I claimed against. He obviously wins the ball. He does make contact with Wishere, and his straight leg barely misses Wilshere. If Wilshere's leg would have been directly behind the ball, that's the exact type of challenge that can break someone's leg. That's why it should be a red card. It's  afar more dangerous challenge than what Jonjo did. By the way, the commentators said at first it was a two footed, but they corrected it to what happened. They said both feet were off the ground which they clearly were. He made the tackle with his bottom leg, so the upper leg was clearly off the ground. Wilshere was just lucky he slipped, because that took his leg out of the way of the tackle. If it hadn't, I doubt we'd have been arguing, because Wilshere would have been crushed.

Kompany's quality as a defender was never questioned by me. I actually really like them, but this is a definite red card for me. Being as good as he is, he should have been able to make a better decision than to go into a challenge like that. Really, he probably didn't need to leave his feet. He could have just made a standing tackle.

Another example of a tackle that I find not quite as bad as Kompany's against Arsenal. This  one is a bit two footed, but he clearly wins the ball without contact. He is also under control in my opinion, because the tackle is by designed to take the ball with the right, and the left foot is supposed to miss. Now, he does come in with excessive force in my opinion, and he does leave both feet. This should have been a yellow for me, because of excessive force.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xniymo_manchester-city-vs-manchester-united-kompany-red-card_sport#.UPbi9GfoDDs

you know why argueing with you is tiring?

I always has to read counterarguments of at least double size.

[redsforlife]

you know why argueing with you is tiring?

I always has to read counterarguments of at least double size.

Then don't argue. It's as simple as that. I made legitimate points. You ignored a few legitimate points as well. The fact is my true stance is the FA is extremely inconsistent. All 3 of these challenges were ruled straight red cards originally. The one that gets rescinded in my opinion is the worst challenge. For me, Jonjo's was the least bad as it was clearly one footed, inside the foot, and his left foot was grounded. Kompany vs United was definitely a foul, because the force and leaving his feet. He was under control, because he intentionally missed Nani completely. Kompany vs Arsenal, dirty challenge with a straight leg and studs going straight into the challenge. Wilshere was lucky not to get hurt.

[Adi]

England thinks it's be best and isn't transitioning it's game fast enough.  Northern Spain is where the best football is played right now and German teams are adopting it quickly, especially Bayern and Dortmund.  Germans are smart and they pick up on what works and incorporate it into their culture and sports. England is too naive and will not make sufficient changes until they under-perform for another 2-3 years in Europe.  They'll figure it after Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Dortmund, and PSG are the best teams in Europe.

[redsforlife]

England thinks it's be best and isn't transitioning it's game fast enough.  Northern Spain is where the best football is played right now and German teams are adopting it quickly, especially Bayern and Dortmund.  Germans are smart and they pick up on what works and incorporate it into their culture and sports. England is too naive and will not make sufficient changes until they under-perform for another 2-3 years in Europe.  They'll figure it after Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Dortmund, and PSG are the best teams in Europe.

England will never change in my opinion. There solution will always be to spend more money on bringing in foreign talent. Eventually, the sponsors may realize the Premier League isn't the best league, and they will sponsor another league. When  the money dries up, it will be too late, but England will have to realize they must start producing their own talent. England's problems begin with the grass roots approach they have. Spain, Germany, France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, etc. all produce better talent, because their youth systems are far superior. Now, with the exception of maybe Germany, all of these countries started  out with far more technical approaches than England, so they had an advantage. They needed to do far less to start producing big talent. Germany has evolved from just being an efficient hardworking team into one of football's best talent producing nations. Now, they play a great technical style of football. This is why they are doing so well in club and international football.

England keeps doing the same thing and expecting different results. The definition of insanity.

[Zarzi]

England thinks it's be best and isn't transitioning it's game fast enough.  Northern Spain is where the best football is played right now and German teams are adopting it quickly, especially Bayern and Dortmund.  Germans are smart and they pick up on what works and incorporate it into their culture and sports. England is too naive and will not make sufficient changes until they under-perform for another 2-3 years in Europe.  They'll figure it after Barca, Madrid, Bayern, Dortmund, and PSG are the best teams in Europe.

I have a similar opinion. In England, don't change the style of play and it just doesn't change. In a sense, this is an advantage because you can watch a lot of teams that play completely different. This doesn't change the fact that the English are at this point very far behind the best teams. Even with such an average playing Polish have big problems.
However, a club team that is able to fight at this moment in European competition is the only Manchester United. It's a shame that the league has fewer representatives in the 1/8 finals of Spain and Germany.
I hope that soon to do battle in the Champions League turns though Liverpool FC.  

[Adi]

The big thing that England has going for them is their use of the English language.  They will always be huge in the US and many other English speaking markets.  It's easy to follow teams in countries which language you can understand.  That's always going to be on their site, but you're both right.  It will continue to carry them as the top league I think, but their performances against other top clubs won't be as good as it has been.

[redsforlife]

The big thing that England has going for them is their use of the English language.  They will always be huge in the US and many other English speaking markets.  It's easy to follow teams in countries which language you can understand.  That's always going to be on their site, but you're both right.  It will continue to carry them as the top league I think, but their performances against other top clubs won't be as good as it has been.

I just think it's pathetic how Prem fanboys get upset when I tell them La Liga is better. They have 1 reply. La Liga is a two team league. Only Barca and Real are any good. Well, Barca and Real are better than any English team. Also, Athletic Bilbao beat Manchester United home and away last season, and they only finished 10th in La Liga. Valencia also beat Stoke City home and away. Seems that these supposedly far weaker teams after Barca and Real are stronger than what the Premier League has to offer as well. That doesn't even go into how the UEFA Coefficients show La Liga as being better. It's based on performances in European competition, so it's the most accurate way to determine. Right now, it's 1. La Liga 2. Premier League 3. Bundesliga 4. Serie A. I personally think the Bundesliga is already better than the Premier Leauge, but the Bundesliga could prove it by the end of the season. Premier League needs some CL success to keep from being overtaken.

I hate Americans' obsession with the English. I really really hate it. Even in youth soccer, there is no better qualification than a British accent. You could be a cricket player, but if you have that accent, parents will think you are a soccer god.

It isn't the same for other accents. I have a friend from Serbia that used to play if FK Raad in the old Yugoslavia first division. He just gets complaints that they can't understand his accent. This guy knows more about football than probably anyone I've ever met. He's legit. He's 50yrs old, and he still trains with the pro indoor team in Detroit. He scores everyday in training.

[redsforlife]

Somebody please explain to me how this wasn't a red card.

[Christof]

Then don't argue. It's as simple as that. I made legitimate points. You ignored a few legitimate points as well. The fact is my true stance is the FA is extremely inconsistent. All 3 of these challenges were ruled straight red cards originally. The one that gets rescinded in my opinion is the worst challenge. For me, Jonjo's was the least bad as it was clearly one footed, inside the foot, and his left foot was grounded. Kompany vs United was definitely a foul, because the force and leaving his feet. He was under control, because he intentionally missed Nani completely. Kompany vs Arsenal, dirty challenge with a straight leg and studs going straight into the challenge. Wilshere was lucky not to get hurt.

But then, you shouldn't complain when nobody is argueing with you.

Like here:

I'm getting bored talking to myself.

[Christof]

And Kompanys challenge is not the sort of tackles which break legs, for that to happen one player needs to slide in, the other player has to stand with his full weight on the leg, so that the studs avoid the leg to move, and all of the impulse of the sliding player has to be stopped by that leg.

But that's not the case, because Kompanys foot did barely move forward, also his center of gravity. It may look from the side view as if he was sliding in, because the camera is moving along Wishere.

And yes, Scholes should have gotten a red card there

[Adi]

Eh, it's OK about the arguments guys.  Sometimes it's nice to argue in long posts but every now end then we get tired of typing so much.  It's OK to stop at some point if you're tired.   

[redsforlife]

But then, you shouldn't complain when nobody is argueing with you.

Like here:

It's a talking point. Would you prefer there just be not talking points?

And Kompanys challenge is not the sort of tackles which break legs, for that to happen one player needs to slide in, the other player has to stand with his full weight on the leg, so that the studs avoid the leg to move, and all of the impulse of the sliding player has to be stopped by that leg.

But that's not the case, because Kompanys foot did barely move forward, also his center of gravity. It may look from the side view as if he was sliding in, because the camera is moving along Wishere.

And yes, Scholes should have gotten a red card there

Yes, it is a leg breaker. What Wilshere did that caused him to avoid getting crunched doesn't take away from what Kompany did wrong. Straight leg, full body weight behind the leg, and studs up = Red Card. There isn't much else to it. Kompany didn't run into it, but he did jump. It's very clear he jumped into the challenge.


I don't get you. At least we agreed about the Scholes challenge, but that is just ridiculous the referee only gave him a yellow card.