Author Topic: English Premier League 12/13  (Read 29786 times)

Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #84 on: Jan 11, 2013, 11:47: AM »
I wonder where Liverpool would be if they hadn't wasted their Torres money on Carroll...

They might have been worse off last season if they didn't. The Carroll transfer wasn't near as bad business as everyone makes it out to be. Liverpool sold their main striker in the last hours of the transfer window, and they needed someone. They ended up buying the in form striker in Andy Carroll. He couldn't stop scoring for Newcastle at the moment.

Also, some of his lack of success was bad luck and bad support from other players. He was injured at Liverpool quite a bit, and Liverpool lacked competent wingers to swing crosses into him. Downing is the player I am disappointed in. He was supposed to be the guy supplying the crosses to Carroll, but he didn't do this. Suarez actually provided the best service for Carroll. A striker is only as good as his service. Carroll did start to show signs of good form in the  end of last season with the goal and the disallowed goal in the FA Cup Final. I'm still not sure whether or not his header crossed the line. The actual problem was that Rodgers just didn't want to use him in his system. It didn't have to do with him being a failure. I had to do with  Rodgers wanting to go in a different direction from Dalglish. It's possible he could have been useful.

The Torres money completely financed the move and than some. I don't see it as that bad of a move. Henderson, Adam, and Downing were bad signings. Henderson may still prove himself, but the other two should probably be cut loose.

Liverpool have made great signings in recent times with  Joe Allen, Luis Suarez, and Jonjo Shelvey. Daniel Sturridge could still prove worthwhile as either a striker off the bench, duo with Suarez, or on the flanks. His pace definitely makes him useful.
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Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #85 on: Jan 13, 2013, 01:49: AM »
Game basically went exactly as I explained. The difference was in the 1st half Liverpool didn't establish possession, and they made defensive errors.

2nd half Liverpool played much better, and they ended the game with more possession than United. United defended overall better than Liverpool throughout the match, and Liverpool made a mistake letting Evra get free on the set-piece.

I'm just happy this game we can actually talk about the football. The previous game this season still stands as a robbery.
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Offline Zarzi

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #86 on: Jan 13, 2013, 02:04: AM »
Yes, finally, the match between the teams took place without any aggression or big referee mistakes.
It's a pity that LFC players couldn't even get the 1 point, but in the game you'll see a big progress. There were also fighting and great fans doping.
You have to agree that in this match Manchester was better, but I hope and I think that soon this will change.  :)

Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #87 on: Jan 13, 2013, 02:45: AM »
Yes, finally, the match between the teams took place without any aggression or big referee mistakes.
It's a pity that LFC players couldn't even get the 1 point, but in the game you'll see a big progress. There were also fighting and great fans doping.
You have to agree that in this match Manchester was better, but I hope and I think that soon this will change.  :)

The 2nd half proved we are already closer than many people believe. I mean, we had more possession than United clearly. The difference was really just capitalizing on opportunities and defending. Liverpool do need a bit more playmaking to create opportunities as well.
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Offline Christof

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #88 on: Jan 13, 2013, 09:24: AM »
i got the impression that Liverpool is lacking of players wanting the ball and take responsibility. Suarez seemed a bit lost, Gerrard tried hard but he can't decide a match on his own anymore. Also had quite a few miserably played passes.

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #89 on: Jan 15, 2013, 03:55: AM »
http://rutube.ru/video/fb647bf64a80a87eaa26f0dcf6adf3a4/

Vincent Kompany's red card against Arsenal has been rescinded. He will not have to serve the 3match ban.

I think this is bullshit, and it shows how inconsistent the FA is with it's rulings. For me, this is a definite red card tackle. He jumps into the tackle with a straight leg studs up towards the ball and the player. This is a potential leg breaker if the Arsenal player's leg gets on the end of this.

I just don't get how the FA rescinds this tackle, but they refuse to rescind far less red card worthy tackles like Jonjo Shelvey vs Man Utd. earlier this year. If they were consistent, it would be one thing, but they tend to be extremely inconsistent.
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Offline Christof

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #90 on: Jan 15, 2013, 08:35: AM »
http://rutube.ru/video/fb647bf64a80a87eaa26f0dcf6adf3a4/

Vincent Kompany's red card against Arsenal has been rescinded. He will not have to serve the 3match ban.

I think this is bullshit, and it shows how inconsistent the FA is with it's rulings. For me, this is a definite red card tackle. He jumps into the tackle with a straight leg studs up towards the ball and the player. This is a potential leg breaker if the Arsenal player's leg gets on the end of this.

I just don't get how the FA rescinds this tackle, but they refuse to rescind far less red card worthy tackles like Jonjo Shelvey vs Man Utd. earlier this year. If they were consistent, it would be one thing, but they tend to be extremely inconsistent.

I agree that it's not very consistent to change referees decisions.

I do not agree however on how you judge those tacklings. Wilshere put the ball too far ahead, Kompany reacted very quickly. It is not like Kompany came flying in like crazy, he basically stood there and then sat down on the grass. It is not true that he went in both legged as the commentator said, his other knee was angled and he didn't try to hit Wilshere. I even doubt that the 2 players clashed if Wilshere hadn't slipped, as he clearly did.

Unlike Shelvey (how am I supposed to remember all those Liverpool-no-names anyway), who came flying in onto Evans' leg. Please explain me how this is not a red card!

Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #91 on: Jan 15, 2013, 12:35: PM »
I agree that it's not very consistent to change referees decisions.

I do not agree however on how you judge those tacklings. Wilshere put the ball too far ahead, Kompany reacted very quickly. It is not like Kompany came flying in like crazy, he basically stood there and then sat down on the grass. It is not true that he went in both legged as the commentator said, his other knee was angled and he didn't try to hit Wilshere. I even doubt that the 2 players clashed if Wilshere hadn't slipped, as he clearly did.

Unlike Shelvey (how am I supposed to remember all those Liverpool-no-names anyway), who came flying in onto Evans' leg. Please explain me how this is not a red card!

You obviously don't remember the Shelvey challenge very well.



As you can see in the gif, Jonjo Shelvey clearly wins the ball with the inside of his right foot. His left foot is on the ground when contact with the ball is made. This shouldn't even have been a foul. Now, watch Evans. Evans leaves both feet and he goes in studs up two footed. In reality, Evans should have been sent off, not Jonjo. The referee sent Jonjo off for what he thought  he saw, not what happened. On first look it did look bad, because both players went in hard. The fact is that Jonjo Shelvey made a clean challenge. Evans came in two footed. Also, before anyone says Jonjo scissored him, watch it closely. The force from Evans's challenge actually forces Jonjo's leg to carry around. Jonjo was going straight.

Now, for the Kompany challenge. For me, definite red card, and it was far more dangerous than what Jonjo did. Evans tackle was probably worse. Yes, Kompany didn't run into the ball or go in two footed. That's beyond the point. Kompany did leave both feet and go in straight legged and studs up. Wilshere was more or less lucky his leg wasn't behind the challenge, because this is the exact type of tackle that can break someone's leg. Wilshere did make a bad touch, but that makes it just a worse decision by Kompany. He didn't need to jump in like that. Studs up and straight legged is a definite red card in my book.

Now, in the end it really comes down to consistency. If the FA would show some, I wouldn't care at all if they were strict or lenient on what a red card is. The problem is, there is no consistency whatsoever.

Edit: Also, Jonjo Shelvey isn't a no name. He's a very promising English youngster. You aren't born a big name footballer. You must grow into that role.
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Offline Christof

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #92 on: Jan 15, 2013, 08:46: PM »
Fact is Kompany won the ball without touching Wishere with his feet. As a defender, you have to win challenges while avoiding cards. Wilshere had a bad touch and Kompany used it to get the ball. Kompany is a world class defender because of exactly that: He can win a lot of close challenges at the limit of the rules. The last time i saw him sent off was against Manchester against Nani, which wasn't even a foul.

You claim Shelvey had contact to the ground with his left foot, so I assume you mean that he was not flying uncontrolled? For me his left foot doesn't excert any forces onto the ground, it basically just slippes through. Fact is that Shelvey won the ball but got it too far ahead, wanted to keep the ball. But there's absolutely no reason to jump into a challenge like that in the opposing teams half. Fact also is that Shelvey did hit Evans, and Evans was lucky that his studs were not on the ground at that time, because then a serious ankle injury would have resulted.

Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #93 on: Jan 16, 2013, 03:32: AM »
Wow, you are clueless, and you obviously just listened to some biased report.

The fact that Jonjo connects inside the right foot cleanly means he had some control. I can understand the argument of being slightly out of control, but that's at most a yellow card. His left foot is clearly on the ground. Far more on the ground than the Kompany challenge. Also, you completely ignored the fact that Evans made a worse challenge. He clearly jumped in two footed studs up. If you watch closely, his grimace actually comes from the force of his fall when his arse hits the ground. He's perfectly fine before that. By law, a two footed tackle must be a straight red card. I'm not really seeing where Jonjo's tackle was so dangerous other than the force he came in with. He actually did the necessary thing to make it less dangerous by coming in with the inside of his right foot. Evans came in straight with both feet studs up. In my opinion, Jonjo was the one in danger, but he came in hard enough that it didn't effect him. If I was the official, I personally would have allowed play to continue, because I feel Jonjo made a clean challenge. It actually took me a second look to realize that Evans committed a two footed challenge.

Kompnay winning the ball was never what I claimed against. He obviously wins the ball. He does make contact with Wishere, and his straight leg barely misses Wilshere. If Wilshere's leg would have been directly behind the ball, that's the exact type of challenge that can break someone's leg. That's why it should be a red card. It's  afar more dangerous challenge than what Jonjo did. By the way, the commentators said at first it was a two footed, but they corrected it to what happened. They said both feet were off the ground which they clearly were. He made the tackle with his bottom leg, so the upper leg was clearly off the ground. Wilshere was just lucky he slipped, because that took his leg out of the way of the tackle. If it hadn't, I doubt we'd have been arguing, because Wilshere would have been crushed.

Kompany's quality as a defender was never questioned by me. I actually really like them, but this is a definite red card for me. Being as good as he is, he should have been able to make a better decision than to go into a challenge like that. Really, he probably didn't need to leave his feet. He could have just made a standing tackle.

Another example of a tackle that I find not quite as bad as Kompany's against Arsenal. This  one is a bit two footed, but he clearly wins the ball without contact. He is also under control in my opinion, because the tackle is by designed to take the ball with the right, and the left foot is supposed to miss. Now, he does come in with excessive force in my opinion, and he does leave both feet. This should have been a yellow for me, because of excessive force.

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Offline Adi

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #94 on: Jan 16, 2013, 06:08: AM »
RVP decides things once again.  Baller.

I watches bits and pieces of both games this Sunday but neither really lived up to the billing.

Prem is getting weaker by the year.
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Offline redsforlife

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Re: English Premier League 12/13
« Reply #95 on: Jan 16, 2013, 06:55: AM »
RVP decides things once again.  Baller.

I watches bits and pieces of both games this Sunday but neither really lived up to the billing.

Prem is getting weaker by the year.

And the fans are getting more delusional every year.  :cheesy:

I mentioned on Sherdog earlier in the season that La Liga was clearly superior at the moment. I got hounded by the delusional idiots. I showed how both head to head and UEFA Coefficients had La Liga ahead, but they just kept making excuses like English teams don't care about Europa League or they didn't play a full strengths squad.

I mean, your team nor league have to be the best for you to like it the most. Just realize this. I know Liverpool aren't the best team in the world, but if there is one team I will watch on the weekend, it will be Liverpool.
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