Oh, thank dkp and Dantheman, i think that if we don't want to call the first nt - combination by one name, then we have to lost many time to imagine the trick. And in the Xixinho333's opinion, let's call Tatw = out CO nt, so the result is, there's no trick, no Skora atw, no Skala atw, no MichRyc atw , except Lemment and Palle, or even ( Patw = tripple ). More example, Oli atw, TB - 360 nt, but which foot make 360 atw ? ( 2 combo: a,TB - reverse htw and b, TB- nt - 360 atw, so did one name describe it easier when u talking ?