English Clubs are the Best

[manutd.]

Thanks, I'm trying to chip in.  :biggrin:

I edited my last post by the way.. keep this thread rolling.  :banana:

[Recce80]

borg i really like your input.You being 15 also,you have some good thoughts and a brain on your shoulders :P this thread is very good,i am enjoying everyones input.I do not have much to say about english leagues,because i will talk for days :P hahaa

[^_^]

English teams have come a long way over the last 10 years. Their leagues has skyrocketed in popularity and talent, and there's no arguing that. On the other hand, the other top 3 leagues (Italy, Spain, and Germany) have all had trouble improving in those aspects.

I don't see how you can say that Italy, Spain, and Germany are trouble improving thier aspects of talent and popularity. This is the first time a World Player of the year will come out of England, it's highly unlikely that Ronaldo will not win the award. With that being said, it isn't Italy, Spain, and Germany having trouble improving, but it is England improving. English teams always have the right amount of foreign quality talent to make it an exciting league. I've never taken credit away from the league. In fact, personally it is what I'd rather watch. This does not mean it is the better league though.

When you analyze the players that have World Player of the Year potential written on them, I would say there are maybe 3 in England: Ronaldo, Torres, and Fabregas (the latter two not so much yet). Spain and Italy are not lacking in talent, and are in fact richer in youthful talent. So it is only English teams improving that makes it seem like they are in fact better. To be fair, it is true that Germany and France do not have the top teams to cut it like England, Spain, or Italy.

Also when you say that "no matter what the top 4 teams are in England they will be CL contenders" you are highly mistaken. Remember when Everton lucked out and qualified? They were trounced by Villareal before the group stages. I don't think any other English team could cut the Champions League to be honest, being that the "top 4" sometimes struggle themselves to do so.

[Adi]

Also when you say that "no matter what the top 4 teams are in England they will be CL contenders" you are highly mistaken. Remember when Everton lucked out and qualified? They were trounced by Villareal before the group stages. I don't think any other English team could cut the Champions League to be honest, being that the "top 4" sometimes struggle themselves to do so.

That's my point... the top 4 in England are regularly Champions League contenders... ALL OF THEM! In Spain and Italy, it's usually only two teams that are even mentioned to make it through to the group stages, let alone the semis or finals.

This is the first time a World Player of the year will come out of England, it's highly unlikely that Ronaldo will not win the award. With that being said, it isn't Italy, Spain, and Germany having trouble improving, but it is England improving. English teams always have the right amount of foreign quality talent to make it an exciting league. I've never taken credit away from the league. In fact, personally it is what I'd rather watch. This does not mean it is the better league though.

The World Player of the Year award does not consider the overall quality of the top teams in England... it's just one player. I don't know how one player can show how much a league is improving. Either way, England has had a top 3 finisher in the World Player of the Year in 6 out of the last 8 years. And you know how close it is every year when it comes to the winner. Anyone in the top 3 deserves it to be honest.

By the way, the Premiership had total club revenues of over £1.4 billion in 2005–06 season, 40% above its nearest competitor: Italy's Serie A. That number alone shows you how much money is in England. As I mentioned before, money talks, not the FIFA World Player of the Year award. It's the sad truth and you know it. With all the money and investments in England, you can't help but admit that the Premiership has a brighter future.

Spain and Italy are not lacking in talent, and are in fact richer in youthful talent. So it is only English teams improving that makes it seem like they are in fact better.

What?! :saywhat:

The fact that English teams are improving makes them seem better? Top Premiership teams have already beating all the Spanish and Italian teams this year (except for Barca) AND the English teams are also improving at a faster rate than the Spanish and Italian teams like you just said.

What does this mean?

Already better + Improving at faster rate = Definitely better over the next 5-10 years.

[TheGodEmperor]

ELITE means that because English teams are improving at such a fast rate, the rapidity of their improvement alone is overshafowing the slower, steadier imporovement of the Spanish and Italian leagues, both of which are on an equally high level.

And now for my ideas: I would not say that England has the top league in the world. I would say that they have the top 'top 4 teams' in the world. But below those 4, the quality of soccer drops significantly. It deteriorates into the old English 'long ball, run hard' style of play, which would get them nowhere against an Italian or Spanish team in a similar position in their respective leagues. Take Spain for example: almost all Spanish teams play beautiful, well crafted soccer. It is the teams with flair that rule the league, and that is the main difference between a team like Bilbao and a team like Barcelona. In England, teams are separated by flair, and also by an incredible stylistic gap created by a lack of foreign-born talent in the lower teams. Lets admit it: English players like to lob the ball and run. You dont see that with teams like Man U and Chelsea because they have foreign talent. In Spain and other countries, all plauers are trained to play possession, and to play some sort of adaptation of Cruyff's Total Football. The lower quality English clubs dont do that yet.

[cigar omar]

Look you can't judge which league is the best league in the world reflecting on one season, especially a season thats not over. I remember Alex Ferguson spoke too soon last year when we had 3 English teams in the semis. The same thing is happening here, what your trying to do is base your argument that English teams are the best because their are 3 of their teams in the semi final thats a pretty weak foundation for an argument. No one at end of the day remembers who reached the semi final. Secondly one season doesn't determine the best league, a few seasons do.

If English teams are more dominant meaning winning the Champions league often recently than you have a strong case but besides Liverpool none of them have won it since United in 99. While Spanish and Italian teams have been winning it more and more often. You can't say English teams dominate Europe even if an English team win it this season. Its like saying the Portuguese league is the best when Porto won it in 04.  If you said England has the best league between 1977-1988 when they won it every year understandable.

Now that we have set that straight your second point would be that English teams are improving and playing a more entertaining brand of football than the other leagues. How you gonna say that when the big 4 are only getting bigger and everyone else is not moving forward. A predictable league cannot be entertaining because I'll know the result of a game between lest say Manchester and Astonvilla 20 minutes after kick off. The improvement of teams have to be equally distributed. I can predict that the top 4 will finish in the top 4 and that 2 of the newly promoted teams will go back down with another struggler form last season.

Look at La Liga for example their is not permanent top 4 Depo has won it once and Velencia have won it twice in the last decade. Teams like Bilbao, Depo, Solciodad, Marlloca, Sevilla and Valencia have featured heavily in the title races. While in England It remained Arsenal - United - and most recently Chelsea in the title race every single year.   

And even this season I'm clearly convinced that an all La Liga XI can beat and all Premier League XI so I don't see what better supper stars and superior football that is being played in England thats not being played in Italy or Spain. 

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

Look you can't judge which league is the best league in the world reflecting on one season, especially a season thats not over. I remember Alex Ferguson spoke too soon last year when we had 3 English teams in the semis. The same thing is happening here, what your trying to do is base your argument that English teams are the best because their are 3 of their teams in the semi final thats a pretty weak foundation for an argument. No one at end of the day remembers who reached the semi final. Secondly one season doesn't determine the best league, a few seasons do.

This was never an argument over the best league in the world. 

If English teams are more dominant meaning winning the Champions league often recently than you have a strong case but besides Liverpool none of them have won it since United in 99. While Spanish and Italian teams have been winning it more and more often. You can't say English teams dominate Europe even if an English team win it this season. Its like saying the Portuguese league is the best when Porto won it in 04.  If you said England has the best league between 1977-1988 when they won it every year understandable.

It was never about any other year.

The improvement of teams have to be equally distributed.

Where are these 50-50 leagues?  There's a reason Levante is on 19 points in La Liga.

In England, teams are separated by flair, and also by an incredible stylistic gap created by a lack of talent in the lower teams.

The lower teams are not exactly at a loss for foreign "talent."  They're just at a general loss for talent.

I think that any problem goes far beyond any simple "stylistic" deficiency.  Very English teams have done very well in the past.

[moby]

this is an unbeilevable thread.


you cant deny the fact that english teams are improving but saying that they are better then teams in the seria a and la liga is a gross overstatement.
i know what your thinking they beat them now. but if you look at the past you can clearly see who is better. as for the future we will just have to wait and see. but if you look at the style of play and the players it obviouse who is better. but games are not won on paper.

right now the english teams just ran and shoot. that is why they are winning. but i totally do not call that playing football.

[TheGodEmperor]

The lower teams are not exactly at a loss for foreign "talent."  They're just at a general loss for talent.

I think that any problem goes far beyond any simple "stylistic" deficiency.  Very English teams have done very well in the past.

The fact is that most homegrown English players have very little talent or flair on the ball. Neither do they have good vision. Therefore, the only style that they play is the lob-and-run style, which is generally ineffective against a team that playus a more refined style. For a more refined style, teams need more talented players who have more vision, and those players just arent found very much in England. 

[a;sdlfkjas;df]

The fact is that most homegrown English players have very little talent or flair on the ball. Neither do they have good vision. Therefore, the only style that they play is the lob-and-run style, which is generally ineffective against a team that playus a more refined style. For a more refined style, teams need more talented players who have more vision, and those players just arent found very much in England. 

The generic English player does not play with very much flair on the ball.  I wouldn't go so far as to say that they do not have good vision.

Again, very English teams have done very well in the past against these "superior" styles.  I do not think that the problem lies in a general stylistic deficiency.  I think that this problem could lie in a shallow English talent pool.

Then again, it's not like too many teams in any top level league are playing with an overwhelming amount of domestic talent.

[^_^]

Also when you say that "no matter what the top 4 teams are in England they will be CL contenders" you are highly mistaken. Remember when Everton lucked out and qualified? They were trounced by Villareal before the group stages. I don't think any other English team could cut the Champions League to be honest, being that the "top 4" sometimes struggle themselves to do so.

That's my point... the top 4 in England are regularly Champions League contenders... ALL OF THEM! In Spain and Italy, it's usually only two teams that are even mentioned to make it through to the group stages, let alone the semis or finals.

This is the first time a World Player of the year will come out of England, it's highly unlikely that Ronaldo will not win the award. With that being said, it isn't Italy, Spain, and Germany having trouble improving, but it is England improving. English teams always have the right amount of foreign quality talent to make it an exciting league. I've never taken credit away from the league. In fact, personally it is what I'd rather watch. This does not mean it is the better league though.

The World Player of the Year award does not consider the overall quality of the top teams in England... it's just one player. I don't know how one player can show how much a league is improving. Either way, England has had a top 3 finisher in the World Player of the Year in 6 out of the last 8 years. And you know how close it is every year when it comes to the winner. Anyone in the top 3 deserves it to be honest.

By the way, the Premiership had total club revenues of over £1.4 billion in 2005–06 season, 40% above its nearest competitor: Italy's Serie A. That number alone shows you how much money is in England. As I mentioned before, money talks, not the FIFA World Player of the Year award. It's the sad truth and you know it. With all the money and investments in England, you can't help but admit that the Premiership has a brighter future.

Spain and Italy are not lacking in talent, and are in fact richer in youthful talent. So it is only English teams improving that makes it seem like they are in fact better.

What?! :saywhat:

The fact that English teams are improving makes them seem better? Top Premiership teams have already beating all the Spanish and Italian teams this year (except for Barca) AND the English teams are also improving at a faster rate than the Spanish and Italian teams like you just said.

What does this mean?

Already better + Improving at faster rate = Definitely better over the next 5-10 years.

I brought up the World Player of the Year because of the fact that you said other leagues where lacking in talent.

Also, I never said the English league isn't improving. It will probably be the best league in the world in a few years, but then again, it might not. What I am trying to say is that because the other leagues are improving at a slower rate than England, it makes it seem like they are declining because of the rate England is improving.

Money does talk, but I don't use that as a basis to judge what league is the best. All that means is the majority of the Asian population is buying more Manchester shirts  :biggrin:

[manutd.]

this is an unbeilevable thread.


you cant deny the fact that english teams are improving but saying that they are better then teams in the seria a and la liga is a gross overstatement.
i know what your thinking they beat them now. but if you look at the past you can clearly see who is better. as for the future we will just have to wait and see. but if you look at the style of play and the players it obviouse who is better. but games are not won on paper.

right now the english teams just ran and shoot. that is why they are winning. but i totally do not call that playing football.

If everyone knows that then why don't the super defending Italian teams defend it?