Beyond Football - Freestyle Football Forum
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: Adi on Dec 14, 2012, 07:12: AM
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Link (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1)
Animal. Real animal... unbelievably disgusting. :(
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I hate American politics. There are more mass shootings like this in the US than the rest of the western world for a reason. Our gun laws are outrageous. We need far stricter gun laws. I am actually arguing with some idiot about this on facebook. She's retarded, but she thinks she knows everything. Her fuckin banner is her shooting an assault rifle, and she claims it's good for self defense....
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Yeah, that's what facebook will be all about this week. Pro guns vs anti gun rights.
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The pro gun people are fuckin stupid. The Constitution gives us a right to bare arms, not guns. Arms can be things like knives, brass knuckles, clubs, etc. They can also be rocket launchers, grenades, surface to air missiles, etc. We have to draw the line somewhere. I think only hunting rifles and guns for the sport of marksmanship should be legal. I also think getting a gun should be extremely difficult. You pretty much need a clean legal slate other than maybe a couple speeding tickets. Any real crime, you shouldn't be allowed a gun.
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"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution.
I don't think this guy belonged to any militia, nor does collecting fire arms individually help for this. People who are entirely against gun control are just stupid and uneducated.
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Guns for protection what a joke, name one instance where a gun was used for protection, I could name 100 where it was used with violence and harm.
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Why a person with a nutjob kid has 3 guns in her house is beyond me. Can hardly blame the crazy idiot, they made it soo easy for him... No professional help, easy access to guns, free entry into the school (didnt they notice he was carrying a fucking hunting rifle? Those things are pretty big...). People saying that if he didnt have access to legal guns he would have gotten illegal guns. Where would a suburban shy, autistic kid in a mental breakdown get guns? Guns are very restricted here and I sure as hell wouldnt know where to locate my local illegal arms dealer.
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Guns for protection what a joke, name one instance where a gun was used for protection, I could name 100 where it was used with violence and harm.
In fairness, there have been instances where guns have proven useful for self defense. I personally think they are terrible weapons for self defense, because most people don't know how to use them. The thing that pisses me off is living in the US, most people seem to think guns are a good idea. I feel bad for Adi living in TX. I think most people carry guns in TX.
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i agree with u guys, i dont fucking understand how it can be legal to buy almost any gun u want! and if they dont learn anything from this terrible episode, when the fuck will they??!
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In fairness, there have been instances where guns have proven useful for self defense. I personally think they are terrible weapons for self defense, because most people don't know how to use them. The thing that pisses me off is living in the US, most people seem to think guns are a good idea. I feel bad for Adi living in TX. I think most people carry guns in TX.
What state is it where you can shoot someone if you FEEL threatened (even if there isnt any real danger)? Is that Florida?
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what the fuck, does such a rule exist??!
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What state is it where you can shoot someone if you FEEL threatened (even if there isnt any real danger)? Is that Florida?
Yup, that would be the lovely state of Florida with their Stand Your Ground law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law)
I few innocent kids have already been killed this year because of it. One African American kid got shot while walking home because a man who "watches" the neighborhood thought he was a hoodlum due to the hoodie he was wearing. He attacked the kid and shot him in "self-defense." Ends up the kid was just returning from the gas station with some Skittles for his little sister.
Last week, a group of black kids were listening to loud music in their car at a gas station. Some old white man ended up unloading an entire clip on the car because he got annoyed. He said he saw one of the kids pull out a shotgun, but no shotgun was found anywhere around the scene. Pure hate and lies. Instead of an argument or at worst a fist fight, we get people shot up.
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What state is it where you can shoot someone if you FEEL threatened (even if there isnt any real danger)? Is that Florida?
No state. The law on self defense states that you can use necessary means to defend yourself if you feel threatened. Meaning if someone is charging you down with a knife or something, you can legally shoot and kill them. They were threatening your life, so killing them would fall under necessary means. Now, if they are unarmed and charging you down, it probably doesn't fly. The laws on self defense in this and probably many countries are fucked up. I don't like them.
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Adi- You can shoot someone in any state in self defense. Your state of TX is probably the most lenient on it's gun laws. The key words are necessary means. It completely depends on that.
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Yeah, I know you need a good reason for it. Nothing that wrong with it but it's a fine line on how the law is interpreted.
Someone's definition of "threatened" is different. Also, the situation isn't always clear. For example, look at the case of the kid in Florida. He was being chased down by the neighborhood watch guy and he felt threatened so he ran. He didn't know who the hell that guy was. When the guy caught up and tackled him, the neighborhood-watch guy felt threatened and shot the kid. The kid had no gun.
I know the shooter might have been threatened and didn't know if the kid had a gun, but he started the whole damn thing. He's still not in prison I don't think. It's such a fine line and nothing is clear. It leaves a lot to be interpreted. If he doesn't go to prison then the law is faulty. He instigated that shit and should be in prison.
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This incident is beyond the actual law, and it's actually an example where of corruption and prejudice in the courts in my opinion. The self defense laws are actually very strict in what you are allowed to do, so shooting someone is very rarely justified. Only in the situation I said someone is charging you down with a deadly weapon or they draw a gun on you is it legal. The laws on unarmed self defense are extremely strict. If someone attacks me, and I KO them with a punch, I will most likely have charges pressed against me. It's bullshit. If anything, that's exactly what I should do if someone attacks me. Other examples like if someone tackles you. The best defense I know when someone tackles me is the arm bar. If I do this and break the guy's arm, I will most likely have charges pressed against me. Once again, that's complete bullshit. You should be allowed to do more to attackers. The thing is they need to be genuine attackers, not like the black kid with a bag of skittles. That guy is a piece of shit, and I hope someone kills him.
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Cant blame MURICA for everything tho. Here in Belgium a nutcase got into a daycare and stabbed babies with a knife. If you are crazy enough you will find the means to do harm. However guns just makes killing faster and more effective (to use a very cruel word). Soon every school will need an armed security guard. Untill the moment one of those guards turns out to be a complete jackass and abuses his position.
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Cant blame MURICA for everything tho. Here in Belgium a nutcase got into a daycare and stabbed babies with a knife. If you are crazy enough you will find the means to do harm. However guns just makes killing faster and more effective (to use a very cruel word). Soon every school will need an armed security guard. Untill the moment one of those guards turns out to be a complete jackass and abuses his position.
What is sad is one of the biggest pro guns argument is statistics showing more gun restrictions causes more knife violence. Well, the statistic is correct, but probably half of the knife attacks would have been gun attacks if guns were more available. I mean, replace the 4 guns on this guy in Connecticut with a machete, and he kills half as many before being stopped. It's just not physically possible to make any type of bladed weapon as effective as a gun.
Going back to the 2nd Amendment, it never mentions anything about guns. Arms are any type of weapon. Also, it mentions to be able to form a militia. Individuals are not a militia. The state can store as many guns as it likes to form a militia if it is ever needed. No individual ever has to have one.
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Obama's speech last night was quite good.
Here it is if you haven't seen it:
President Obama Makes a Statement on the Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIA0W69U2_Y#ws)
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html)
Good article about how gun control laws in Australia have pretty much made mass shootings non-existent. It's only common sense, but too many ignorant Americans.
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Interesting. Right now might be the best time to make a push for changes here. The changes AU put in place make sense and obviously worked. Not every country is the same but why not try it here. It's about time.
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It won't happen, and since you live in TX, you know this too. The idiots here don't even understand the 2nd amendment, and they have no clue why there must be restrictions in the type of arms you may have. Nuclear warheads are arms. By their definition, if I'm rich enough to buy one, I should be allowed to have one.
I posted it before. The 2nd Amendment mentions a militia. The only reason you are given the right to bear arms is for a militia. That doesn't mean everyone should be allowed to have a gun. It means that there should be available weapons to form a militia if necessary. These weapons could all be kept under lock and key in the state capital.
I am actually not against changing The Constitution, but most Americans think this is extreme. I just find it odd that we want our entire country modeled after a 200yr old document. I think that society has changed drastically in that time, and we must evolve to what our current society needs, not what we needed 200yrs ago.
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(http://s3.vidimg02.popscreen.com/original/45/OFJiTDRQd1REc1Ex_o_terminator-2-minigun.jpg)
Just found out that this gun is actually legal to buy in the US. I guess I'll be adding something to my Christmas wish list. :great:
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its just unbelievable...btw does obama´write his own speeches?
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its just unbelievable...btw does obama´write his own speeches?
naah.. i don't think so...
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I assume he does with the help of a team of professional speech writers.
Usa cant do the same as australia because it just doesnt have the economy to take such measures. Weapon making and selling is too big a part of the us economy to just radically change (especially now with the depression).
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I hope Ill never be able to understand how someone can shoot their own mother and 20 children on top of that!
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if hes not a complete psychopath, then i dont know what thing in hell that could make him do such an undescribable awful thing
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Obama will support a law against semi automatic rifles. Lets see if it gets trough.
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Obama will support a law against semi automatic rifles. Lets see if it gets trough.
I can already tell you it won't. There is just too much opposition against it. This forum has an obvious lean towards anti-guns, but from what I can tell you interacting with Americans, the pro gun people have actually been more outspoken on the issue. It's crazy, but they are. I really would like it to be passed, but it's extremely unlikely.
On a 2nd thought, gun control isn't the only thing we need to do. People commit crimes like this, because they feel they have nothing to live for. This may be from mental issues, financial struggles, etc. We need to provide medical help for these people to prevent them from committing these crimes. We also need to create more jobs, so people don't think they need to kill to get money and other needs.
The biggest problem I see is the people that are pro guns are ant-healthcare and anti-poor people. This doesn't go together. It allows these people to think a gun is an easier way out.
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Actually, 64% of Americans agree that semi-automatics should be banned.
Complete abolition of gun ownership has a 54% approval.
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Actually, 64% of Americans agree that semi-automatics should be banned.
Complete abolition of gun ownership has a 54% approval.
Those aren't the people that make the decisions. The right wing in Congress will make sure no laws like this get passed any time soon. Also, the pro guns people are more vocal. That's actually what I was saying.
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Yeah, what people want and what actually happens are two different things.
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Well the saying is that 1/3 of america is retarded. 36% not against semi automatic rifles. Sounds about right... What do they think will come after them that they cant fight off with handguns? Aliens?