Beyond Football - Freestyle Football Forum
Freestyle Soccer Forum => Freestyle Videos => Topic started by: Yen on Sep 23, 2012, 01:58: PM
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Red Bull Street Style in Lecce - Ghunter Celli vs Sean Garnier (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK27CDkPraM&feature=plcp#)
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Sean was better in my opinion. Its funny because the critiria is the reason gunther won as he has to get best trick because of the nt and also there is an italian judge on the panel that knows nothing about freestyle so is gonna be bias towards gunther. I know gunther is great in freestyle but he was very lucky to pass this round. I feel sorry for Sean in this case as he lost from a bad decision again.
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I agree. I have respect for Gunther and I thought it was a close battle but creativity to Gunther and not Sean? Correct me if I'm wrong but I did not see anything creative in Gunther's rounds.
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while this battle, i was already disappointed because sean did so well, but i knew he had exactly this votes against him. he even freestyled more than 20 seconds longer than gunther and did almost perfect.
the best trick vote goes automatically to the best atw combo?
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Best trick = most technically difficult trick?
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Best trick = 20 different trick together?
Sean is the winner imo, Gunther was lucky to get past the first round, home advantage is huge in rbss look at the last 3 comps murilio, kamalio and now gunther
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excuse me but how exactly did sean even come near gunthers combo in terms of difficulty? sean was good indeed but lets get one thing straight: this is a competition where the hardest stuff counts and not the best looking. also gunther
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excuse me but how exactly did sean even come near gunthers combo in terms of difficulty? sean was good indeed but lets get one thing straight: this is a competition where the hardest stuff counts and not the best looking. also gunther
Difficulty is only 1 of the 5 criterias (control) and I agree, Gunther did have harder combos but what about style and creativity? Surely Sean takes those.
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Gunther did more tatw nt's than sean did atw's in a combo. I dont think Sean should have won. For controll you dont just have to look at how someone does the trick but how difficult the trick is.
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For me this was a close battle. On Criteria I would vote it like this myself. Style: Sean, Control: Gunther, Best Trick: Gunther, Creativity: Sean, Overall: Sean.
I do have to agree with Andrew. The criteria pretty much made Palle vote for Gunther. We don't really know whom Palle thought was the best overall. Also, Cannavaro voted with the other Italian. I said it before, I don't think he knows near enough about freestyle to even understand what tricks are creative. He voted for which freestyle he liked more. He liked Gunther more, and it is more than possible Gunther being Italian really influenced the vote. Not trying to take too much away from Gunther. He was very good in this battle, and it was definitely close.
Max- I don't think anyone disagreed that Gunther's tatw nt combos won best trick. I agree with this. Now, I do disagree that it is entirely about what is the hardest. In an overall look at what is better, you must look at difficulty, execution, and any flair. There are great tricks that aren't really that difficult. For me, freestyle is a performance. To be a better performer, you cannot only do things that are difficult. You must do things that are appealing to the audience. The best will manage to balance the two with difficult and appealing tricks. Sean is overall a better freestyle performer than Gunther in my opinion.
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For me this was a close battle. On Criteria I would vote it like this myself. Style: Sean, Control: Gunther, Best Trick: Gunther, Creativity: Sean, Overall: Sean.
I do have to agree with Andrew. The criteria pretty much made Palle vote for Gunther. We don't really know whom Palle thought was the best overall. Also, Cannavaro voted with the other Italian. I said it before, I don't think he knows near enough about freestyle to even understand what tricks are creative. He voted for which freestyle he liked more. He liked Gunther more, and it is more than possible Gunther being Italian really influenced the vote. Not trying to take too much away from Gunther. He was very good in this battle, and it was definitely close.
Max- I don't think anyone disagreed that Gunther's tatw nt combos won best trick. I agree with this. Now, I do disagree that it is entirely about what is the hardest. In an overall look at what is better, you must look at difficulty, execution, and any flair. There are great tricks that aren't really that difficult. For me, freestyle is a performance. To be a better performer, you cannot only do things that are difficult. You must do things that are appealing to the audience. The best will manage to balance the two with difficult and appealing tricks. Sean is overall a better freestyle performer than Gunther in my opinion.
first of all, in my comment i didnt care about the criterias. imo without any criterias gunther would have won this easily.
To your point with the performance: yes you are right for me it is also important that there is a good overall performance with style and flow. BUT they cant be taken into consideration as much as difficulty. This still is a competition and in a competition the hardest stuff counts, thats it. Now i understand why someone would vote for sean against an oppenent who has like 10 drops in allround stuff but pulls of 3 patws in a combo but gunther didnt drop the ball (or maybe 1 or 2 times), had some uppers, transitions and sits + his amazing lower combo which takes longer to practise for than everything sean did in his battle. Sean clearly owned gunther in terms of style and creativity but again imo you cant value these points as high as difficulty especially not when the opponent can do some decent allround stuff with transitions and doesnt have the ugliest style in the world.
For the rbss competition with the criterias: sean should have won. Style creativity and best trick (the one he does at the end where he jumps). Control (as i see this the difficulty part) goes to gunther and i think overall should aswell go to sean as he had much better flow in his rounds than gunther.
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I just want to point out in most judged competitions like gymnastics, skateboarding, etc. difficulty isn't weighed more than other areas. It's usually weighed about the same. I guess there are individuals that weigh certain areas higher than others, and maybe that is where we fall. I personally think the more creativity and better flow is pretty difficult to do. I disagree that Gunther's lower combo takes more practice than anything Sean did. If anything, I think Sean's could arguably take longer. I know that Gunther's tatw nt combos are very hard. It takes amazing athleticism to pull that off, but it's really one technique repeated. Is that really harder than doing many different techniques?
Just curious, because your statements contradict each other. You said without criteria Gunther should have won easily. Well, without criteria all the judges are just voting on all around. You then said Sean should win all around on RBSS criteria. You can weigh what you prefer heavier in the all around area if you like. I'm sure most people would.
For me, Sean still wins under any or no criteria. Freestyle judging really is just about opinions. There is nothing clearly set in stone, and Sean vs Gunther is like apples vs oranges.
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So.. Who's the apple, who's the orange? :017:
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with overall-criteria i dindt mean allround, i thought of it more like how fluently executed the performance was and seans performance had much more flow. but yeah you are right its really really hard to compare these two freestylers.
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Overall and all around can be used interchangeably. They more less mean the same thing. When both of us said all around we meant the entire performances being judged.
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Overall and all around can be used interchangeably. They more less mean the same thing. When both of us said all around we meant the entire performances being judged.
i heard in touzanis judge interview that he defined this criterium differently. not sure what he said exactly but it was something like that he judges the overall performance, how well it was built and how it ends. with allround i mean somethin totally different.
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If overall meant how well the performance flowed, then there really isn't a criteria that marks you up for being all round. Variation may be a broader criteria that covers more than creativity specifically.
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Well, lets just break down all around and overall as words before we apply them to freestyle. All around would mean every aspect of something. Overall would mean every aspect of something. They are the same thing.
I understand that many freestylers think of all around as someone that does lowers, uppers, sits, and maybe grounds. Really, it might be better to just say well rounded. All around will include things like flow, showmanship, difficulty, creativity, variety, etc.
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Whats the point in explaining these words grammatically? i have explained you what i meant in my post with allround and i explained you what touzani meant with overall. I only did that to show that i dont contradict myself in my earlier post.
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in freestyle sport :
style = cleaning tricks
control : who proves that you can better control the ball
creativity : new tricks , not old but cool tricks or blocks
best trick : win who show to be more massive
over all : drops ,sit,upper and lower
in red bull
style b-boy roxite : who dance better
control mr woo : who made less error
cannavaro creativity : who I like more
palle best trick: who is the technical
touzani : "sorry gunther i have almost voted against you because cannavaro is your friend"
yes canavaro it's for me i'm sure but b-boy roxite and touzani are 100% agains me
80% of freestylers, now is public look what is beautiful and not what is difficult
you put Rocco as a judge of the style not a b-boy
Yan redsforlife next year in RBSSI'll trade : I dance and do somersault and i use jeans do not be afraid ( but in Italy if you do a sports with jeans ... they throw your out of the gym)
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I agree with most points , but on the other hand ....you know it will be like this and you accept the invitation of the tournament. Without spectacular battles with alot of powermoves and famous judges this tournament would not exist ....so take it or leave it !
we can still improve some things offcourse...i have given alot of feedback to redbull and they seem to listen . For example the first change ...change the word ''baller'' to freestyler and get rid of the criteria system.
Also for next editions some countries will be having more freestylers representing at the World Finals ...so it will be Qualifications + extra freestylers that get wildcards. For example like this poland can send like 3 freestylers !
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in freestyle sport :
style = cleaning tricks
control : who proves that you can better control the ball
creativity : new tricks , not old but cool tricks or blocks
best trick : win who show to be more massive
over all : drops ,sit,upper and lower
in red bull
style b-boy roxite : who dance better
control mr woo : who made less error
cannavaro creativity : who I like more
palle best trick: who is the technical
touzani : "sorry gunther i have almost voted against you because cannavaro is your friend"
yes canavaro it's for me i'm sure but b-boy roxite and touzani are 100% agains me
80% of freestylers, now is public look what is beautiful and not what is difficult
you put Rocco as a judge of the style not a b-boy
Yan redsforlife next year in RBSSI'll trade : I dance and do somersault and i use jeans do not be afraid ( but in Italy if you do a sports with jeans ... they throw your out of the gym)
Gunther I am in no means trying to take the victory away from you. I may have preference over one style but I RESPECT all styles and there are very few people in the fs community that can do the atatw nt combos like you do. I think hardcore, difficult air combos will always be an essential in freestyle but as you said, more and more people are focusing more on public look and doing tricks that are more "beautiful". There is a reason for this; people who do not know the sport are more attracted to the "beautiful" tricks than the hardcore as they do not know the difficulty involved in executing these tricks. It's an undeniable fact that the crowd pleasers are usually the more "beautiful" tricks over the hardcore combos for that reason. In no means am I putting down hardcore, I am just saying that in a global community where a majority of the people aren't freestylers, they are more likely to appreciate the "beautiful" tricks than the hardcore combos.
I disagree that you said b-boy Roxite and Touzani are 100% against you because in the Quarter-Finals against Andrew, Touzani voted for you and in the play offs for 3rd place, b-boy Roxite voted for you.
Why mock Sean? All the other acrobatic freestylers (Boyka, Tokura etc) all wore shorts. It's just personal preference, like apple and orange :13:
Peace.
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wake up : this is a tournament not a show , in a show i'm the first to use the hand and don't use NT but this is a tournament
and is the people like you to kill this sport , red bull is commercial and for this i have win against andrew , but if you say that in a battle i deserved to lose against Sean i'm sad for you because you have to change sport .
i have win in lower in sitdown and in upper and he have made a littel drops and touch the ball with teh hand , I 0 drops
style ? you think sean have the same effect with normal soccer short and footsal shoes ? i know the answer and is : No
you think it's possible use the hand? in a show yes , in a battle no
creativity ? I have not seen anything new or.... respond to tricks sean so,can be new and creative
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4644512036578&set=at.4644381553316.2190157.1406430371.100002567209550&type=1&theater (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4644512036578&set=at.4644381553316.2190157.1406430371.100002567209550&type=1&theater)
Sean it's an awersome freestyler and i think he deserve to arrive in top 16 because have a particular style and an awersome level but i don't wanna listen freestylers speack like normal people
roxite have vote for me only when he have put me out of the tournament
and touzani ... i think he like the cap trick because he don't know this ( it's bed but i think it's this)
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It's called FREEstyle for a reason, each styler can do the tricks they enjoy. Don't hate on them. How boring would it be if we all did leg rotations? Do what you enjoy., don't let it worry you Gunther, you should enjoy the sport. Less hate
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It's called FREEstyle for a reason, each styler can do the tricks they enjoy. Don't hate on them. How boring would it be if we all did leg rotations? Do what you enjoy., don't let it worry you Gunther, you should enjoy the sport. Less hate
cant describe how i hate this sentence. btw who are you yen? do i know you ? just wondering because you are a moderator but i have never heard of your nickname
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na don't think you do. Am a freestyler from NZ. Why do you hate that sentence though? I find some people trying to limit the variation in freestyle.
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because thats the basic argument of retards trying to justify the use of hands in our sport or basically everything that doesnt involve control of a ball but dancing or acting weird on stage.
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Yo Max, some people are show stylers so they train to entertain and to wow audiences. I think that is the coolest thing about freestyle. There are a lot of styles out there and we can train the tricks we want to learn. There is no limits. All styles should receive respect and there should not be hate within the sport.. especially from well known freestylers who need to set and example. I am not naming people i am just stating thats the way our sport should be :grin:
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Yo Max, some people are show stylers so they train to entertain and to wow audiences. I think that is the coolest thing about freestyle. There are a lot of styles out there and we can train the tricks we want to learn. There is no limits. All styles should receive respect and there should not be hate within the sport.. especially from well known freestylers who need to set and example. I am not naming people i am just stating thats the way our sport should be :grin:
i couldnt care less what people do in a show as long as they dont call it football freestyle and use their hands 50 % of the time. S3 calls thei show freestyle ball or ball-freestyle which is cool. Also in a football freestyle competition you just cant use your hands for more than to spin the ball, it just isnt football freestyle. i am giving alot of respect for every style in freestyle, i actually love to watch everything that involves a ball but in competitions there have to be rules. you cant say in a competition you can do everything you want because its FREEstyle. Its also called FOOTball freestyle for a reason.
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too many people complain about such dumb things. freesyle = do whatever the hell you want. you guys completely miss the point on what freestyle even means. stop bitching about it. it's ridiculous. Max, why do you hate yen's sentence? it's the truth. you want everyone to do the same thing? it seems like it is already happening anyway cus almost every video i see here on this site, is never anything new b/c you guys don't think outside the box. same ol boring shit.
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I agree with the use of hands thing, but I also agree with Yen's statement. It's FREEstyle FOOTBALL. You don't use your hands in football, so I don't like the use of hands in freestyle. If you use your hands in freestyle, it's freestyle ball, not freestyle football. I actually dislike the hands thing more than you probably do. I don't like it when freestylers drop the ball with there hands or catch it after a trick. The only time I find use of hands acceptable is catching the ball to bow at the end of a show. This is just an opinion though.
I do think people should accept other people's styles of freestyle. Too many people think there is one way that people should freestyle. Freestyle is definitely more entertaining when everyone can do their own thing.
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It's called FREEstyle for a reason, each styler can do the tricks they enjoy. Don't hate on them. How boring would it be if we all did leg rotations? Do what you enjoy., don't let it worry you Gunther, you should enjoy the sport. Less hate
I watched the video of prague when the competition was like "do a 3 rev trick followed by two 2 rev tricks" etc and i found it pretty epic.
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too many people complain about such dumb things. freesyle = do whatever the hell you want. you guys completely miss the point on what freestyle even means. stop bitching about it. it's ridiculous. Max, why do you hate yen's sentence? it's the truth. you want everyone to do the same thing? it seems like it is already happening anyway cus almost every video i see here on this site, is never anything new b/c you guys don't think outside the box. same ol boring shit.
you dont read what i am saying. i actually share jasons opinion, his post describes perfectly what i meant. i only hate yens sentence because it is used VERY often by people to justify the use of hands in freestyle football thats it. i dont have anything against creative or original stuff, in fact i want to move away from hardcore and go into the creative style more. and yes i agree with you that freestyle has become VERY boring when you watch most videos.
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Ahh.. When I used that sentence I was not referring to the use of hands but Sean's style. I agree the sentence is very overused but still some people can't accept the fact even though it's the simplest way to put it.
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And my argument had nothing to do with hands, just that people with a different style should be equally respected and appreciated :)
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hey people easy :
Max have understand
"this is freestyle" me too hate this answere, because this not is freestyle this is football freestyle , and if you wanna use the hand or dance or use a tennis ball , you can use but dont call FOOTBALL freestyle call it ball freestyle .
I do not hate anyone, but I do not like the ignorance that is developing in this world , and i'm the first one to help all italian beginner to became a freestyler and with different style
the world "this is freestyle" is like this exemple :
you are like a fake rapper in a freestyle battle :
He can say: "This is freestyle I can not do rhymes"
it's time to wake up
in prague we have routine and battle.
in rotine people like wass deserve to win and people like skora deserve to lose because it's difficolt found an awersome artist like wass
but in battle people like wass deserve to lose against people like skora because it's difficult found an awersome athlets like skora
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i'm finished I think it is useless to talk about this again
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you dont read what i am saying. i actually share jasons opinion, his post describes perfectly what i meant. i only hate yens sentence because it is used VERY often by people to justify the use of hands in freestyle football thats it. i dont have anything against creative or original stuff, in fact i want to move away from hardcore and go into the creative style more. and yes i agree with you that freestyle has become VERY boring when you watch most videos.
freestyle today is nothing like back In the day. I actually used to have motivation to watch videos and go out and freestyle. All I see is repetition and the same ol combos. And sorry I didn't go all the way back to read the previous comments. Probably should do that before I comment lol
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freestyle today is nothing like back In the day. I actually used to have motivation to watch videos and go out and freestyle. All I see is repetition and the same ol combos. And sorry I didn't go all the way back to read the previous comments. Probably should do that before I comment lol
totally agre with you. thats why i love TF's new video so much because it is something new.... well not really something new but it has the old values to just randomly put some tricks together and make it look amazing. Even Skora, who used to have the greatest variety of tricks has turned over to the boring side of frestyle and cares only about the usual 3rev and nt stuff.