Beyond Football - Freestyle Football Forum
Freestyle Soccer Forum => Freestyle Chat => Topic started by: Adi on Jun 21, 2012, 05:20: AM
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Style or hardcore, that is the question.
I'm starting to get tired of hardcore freestyle. People are trying to pull off a bunch of "impossible" combos but half of them look like shit. Let's face it... there is too much of a focus on hardcore. Style is being pushed to the side and freestyle football is getting uglier if you ask me.
I think freestylers need to tone it down a bit. Focus on style and perfection. Make freestyle look sexy instead of looking like you are spazzing out.
Seriously, it's becoming an issue. This even applies to top freestylers... sometimes you pull of hardcore combos with style, but most of the time it doesn't look all that great. Yes, it's an achievement to do a crazy combo, but you still need style and composure. I'd rather see nice style and execution, than unclean combos.
There aren't many stylish videos anymore. Most videos out there are just attempts at hard combos... style is put on the backburner. Really ruins the enjoyment of videos. Hardcore videos get boring if they are longer than 30 seconds. On the other hand, great style can be watched for 3-5 minutes. Just look at the video Abbas released last year. So stylish, sexy, and unique... freestylers should take a lesson from that.
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This is kind of the wrong use of style. Hardcore would be a style. The complaint you are having with hardcore videos is the execution of the tricks. It's very difficult very many freestylers to have good execution when they are doing very hard tricks.
Now, getting away from the use of the word style. I 100% agree with your point. The current freestyle scene seems to be majority fans of hardcore and hardcore only. This stuff is great and all, but it's not everything. I like seeing different and new exciting things. One more revolution isn't that exciting, because it's not that creative. I wanna see things that not many people have thought of before. Abbas's showreel video last year is a great example. He went out with the task of performing tricks that haven't been done before.
I think the key is managing to mix the two. You can push the limits and be creative too. You just need to think outside the box some time. Think of a new way to do something. This competition on who can get the best combos is great, but it's boring when that's all you see. Show me something new.
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This is kind of the wrong use of style. Hardcore would be a style. The complaint you are having with hardcore videos is the execution of the tricks. It's very difficult very many freestylers to have good execution when they are doing very hard tricks.
Yeah, I guess I worded it incorrectly. I was referring to the focus on style rather than continued development of hardcore tricks. For example, I think freestylers should work on mastering combos and adding style to them instead of doing a hardcore combo decently, then moving on to another more difficult combos.
I think people like to brag about the combos they have landed instead of mastering a combo and adding their own style to it. My point is that people should focus on style and put their own exclamation mark on each combo instead of barely doing it right, then moving on to an even more difficult combo. It makes for sloppy, average, repetitive, and boring freestyle.
I like seeing different and new exciting things. One more revolution isn't that exciting, because it's not that creative. I wanna see things that not many people have thought of before.
Spot on.
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90% of freestylers use the word "style" wrong every time they use it. It's something you almost have to become used to in the community.
My opinion is that as a freestyler, you should try to create your own style, not just try to match or beat others combos. Some freestylers have done a great job at this. Michryc is a great example of a freestylers that is primarily lowers that does this. He really has his own style of tricks and combos. The problem is he is the minority that does this. Most of the freestylers focus only on the competing on landing combos.
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Hardcore 100%
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My opinion is that as a freestyler, you should try to create your own style, not just try to match or beat others combos. Some freestylers have done a great job at this. Michryc is a great example of a freestylers that is primarily lowers that does this. He really has his own style of tricks and combos. The problem is he is the minority that does this. Most of the freestylers focus only on the competing on landing combos.
Exactly. Michryc knows what's up. He does the difficult stuff but he focuses on style more. Everything he does is sexy.
I'm really wondering how much people appreciate Michryc's style. I know people like his stuff, but do they like it as much as Ethan's hardcore videos? Ethan is great, but I would always chose a Michryc video over his... no offense intended. I think I'm the minority however with this opinion. I think most prefer Ethan's videos over Michryc's.
Am I wrong with that assumption?
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Michryc is of the level that I think everyone enjoys his stuff. He is hardcore, but he has his own style as well. I would agree with you about that. Most people within the freestyle community would go nuts over a Ethan, Skora, or Akim lowers combos video much more than anything by Michryc.
Szymo is another freestyler I really like for his ability to be hardcore and creative in everything he does. He has both hardcore and creative tricks for lowers, sits, uppers, and he even does some grounds.
Now, my memory from Prague is that more people were just interested into whatever hard combo someone like Skora, FX, Rocco, etc. could do. Obviously, Szymo can compete with all of them in combos, but it's not his preference. Oli asked him and Skora if they had a preference after their final battle. Skora said lowers which got loud cheers. Szymo said I focus on all aspects of freestyle to more or less no reaction.
I'm afraid this is just how the majority of the community is at the moment. You can compare it to popular music as well. Most of the stuff that is popular is just the bland overdone stuff. Most of the songs on pop radio sound the same. The creative and different style of modern music for the most part stay underground. Why it's this way, I'll never truly understand.
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It's a shame though... more guys should work on improving their style and how their combos or general freestyle looks, rather than trying to push on to the next hardcore combo before even knowing the combo before properly. I know the elite freestylers have both most of the time (style and ability to do hardcore moves), but the mid-level or good freestylers are focusing too much on hardcore instead of the execution and style/look of their freestyle.
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Some do, but not all. There are guys considered top freestylers that are really one dimensional. That 1 dimension is typically spectacular, so I can't really criticize them. Overall though, I don't rate them as much as all around freestylers.
One other note. I'm PATW and LTATW now :bawling: I wanna freeze my level to New Shit. Much cooler trick move, and I can actually do it.
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i already said my view on this in a previous thread, but i will say it again. I prefer to see something really impressive, limits being pushed etc, rather than something entertaining. I like vids with great style, flow, smoothness etc but not as much as a hardcore vid.
Of course, i don't want to see ugly nt combos where the guy is stretching 10 feet in the air for every trick. But guys like Akim, Ethan, MP etc who push the limits and do most tricks clean and smooth are very nice to watch. But while pushing these limits not every trick will look smooth, which is understandable.
I think most freestylers started fsing to do something cool/impressive, not really to be stylish. But there are some freestylers who want to entertain and put style as priority.
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Here's another point. The limits can be pushed in areas other than lowers as well. Most freestylers don't try it, but there are some. Sits and uppers can be hardcore as well. I think grounds possibly can be too, but maybe a bit harder. Need more people training them.
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90% of freestylers use the word "style" wrong every time they use it. It's something you almost have to become used to in the community.
Style can have several meanings, depending on the context, so even though I'd definitely agree that it gets over(ab)used and misused quite a bit, I wouldn't agree that 90% don't use it correctly.
On topic: I agree that style, as well as trick execution is being somewhat neglected nowadays, in favor of faster improvement, harder tricks, etc.. Most of the guys that are getting positive comments about their style nowadays would've gotten their fair share of "work on your style" comments on SG back in 2006 or 2007 or would've even been laughed about because of it.
Jason put it well in his last post, it basically comes down to the fact that this kind of stuff is mainstream and therefor gets the most attention within the community itself. Also, there are very few people who are actually critical, the vast majority just lick ass and praise someone, disregarding any potential negatives, like bad trick execution, bad style, etc..
The positive thing about all of it is that guys who are different, like MichRyc, stand out more and thus, get more appreciation. :)
@jabarinho: WTF does this topic have to do with entertainment? The topic is not about show vs. technicality, but rather about a shitload of guys doing exactly what you mentioned, pulling off incredibly hard tricks, just for the sake of the difficulty, with barely any style, flow, variety or originality.
http://www.youtube.com/user/forzaitaliayoyo/videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/forzaitaliayoyo/videos)
This is exactly the kind of stuff we're talking about. "SKMATW" attempt, but can't even put together a decent combo, lol.
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@ Miran: I see the names Akim and Ethan being mentioned. I thought they were saying they prefer to see a stylish, flowing vid from Abbas or Michryc rather than limits being pushed by hardcore guys.
You cannot compare Ethan and Akim to the guy in your link who is simply skipping basics to do hardcore. I'm saying i prefer to watch a hardcore vid with decent style rather than a flowing vid with perfect style. Because to me hardcore is more exciting.
An Abbas or Michryc vid would be more entertaining for most people though.
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I agree with Miran 90%. The only thing I disagree with is the use of the word "style". You are correct that it can have more than one meaning, but I'm the native English speaker man. Trust me, the most common usage of style among freestylers is you have great style, or you need to work on your style. They are not saying you need to come up with something that separates you from others or you are very unique. They are saying you have good or bad execution. Like I said though, it almost has become an acceptable term within the freestyle community.
Jaba: Akim, Ethan, etc. were used as examples, because they are some of the most well known hardcore freestylers. A quick look at the video section will show that the majority of hardcore videos are like the one Miran posted. I still think it isn't a choice of entertainment vs pushing the limits. Michryc, Luki, Szymo, Abbas, and Gautier push the limits as well, but they do it in less mainstream type tricks. Freestyle is an art. This means the whole point of freestyle is to make things beautiful. Now, there are more complex forms of every art, but even the most simple arts can be beautiful.
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I can guarantee that casual freestyle fans or anyone that randomly comes across a freestyle video will be more impressed by a well executed video rather than a hardcore video that isn't done properly.
I know most freestylers don't care about those viewers who don't freestyle much, but you really should. This is how freestyle will grow. Freestyle grew the most when new and unique stuff was brought to the table, as was done with the Nike ads back in the day and the early movement of freestyle when new stuff was invented frequently.
As Jason said, freestyle should continue to be beautiful and attractive. If you want to look like you're spazzing out when you're freestyling, then just pick up a hacky sack and do that. Now those clowns look like nerds and tools. Freestyle is heading more and more into that direction. Stop it before it's too late.
Also, why are more of you not posting on this topic? Are the replies too long and well thought out to reply? Seriously, some of you that post "hahaha, cool vid" or just post a smiley in most topics need to branch out and post some valuable stuff. Don't be scared off by the long posts... instead, read them and comment.
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Now, my memory from Prague is that more people were just interested into whatever hard combo someone like Skora, FX, Rocco, etc. could do.
I dont really get why do you complain about people not mastering basics first when these three obviously have one of the best basics out there, FX & Rocco have probably the best style ever and Skoras style also looks much more controlled and cleaner and with much more flow than it used to be. I also really doubt Szymo could compete with them when it comes to lowers.
The truth is that majority of people prefer doing lowers which make freestyle football a sport to doing some clown shit. I think people get much more impressed with some 3 rev tricks, thinking that it mustve taken really long time and sweat to nail them and that those freestylers have to be in a pretty good shape, while watching some Gautavity vids, they may think its cool as well, but rather more like circus stuff. I also like creative freestyle a la MichRyc, but some of the creativity, like pulling his own T-shirt over his head, looks just retarded to me. My favourite creative freestylers would be Clem, Leiki, Abbas, Nadir and some Japanese freestylers.
But I agree with you, that nowadays, style is pretty much pushed aside. Although I never liked when guys like MP didnt get the respect they deserved just because they looked a bit awkward while pulling out some combos, the truth is non-freestylers find freestyle football to be much cooler when all the combos are executed with great style. My friend of mine (also a freestyler) told me how he had shown his gf a video of MP doing 5 ALATWs and she just burst of laughing.
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Also, everybody wants to become a part of FS history, so you cant really blame some of those guys they want to be the first in the world/country/state/town/area/district/street to do a certain trick/combo when the main part of freestyle are lowers.
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Aaaand hardcore lowers are the main reason why we are so different to freestylers like Billy and Jeremy. They would be possibly able to learn some rollers, transitions, but I really doubt they will ever be able to do some rev trick.
Sorry for making 3 posts in a row, Im just full of cool ideas, lol
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I dont really get why do you complain about people not mastering basics first when these three obviously have one of the best basics out there, FX & Rocco have probably the best style ever and Skoras style also looks much more controlled and cleaner and with much more flow than it used to be.
These are the elite freestylers I specifically excluded from my comments. The elite can pull of hardcore moves while also making them look sexy. This is because they are consistent, accurate, and just damn good.
We are talking about the other 95% of the freestyle community. The freestylers who attempt the same shit as Skora and FX but simply don't have the ability to do it yet.
The argument is they should master their core tricks before going on to the next hardcore combo. If you just trying to land the next hardest combo, you're never gonna do it clean or look good doing it. Style is not necessarily the ability to come up with a new trick, but also your execution of existing moves. If you can land combos with good execution that also gives you style points.
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Your point completely missed my point entirely. I am a big fan of FX, Rocco, and Skora. They are great at what they do, and they have great execution of their lowers. You used the word style wrong. I also disagree that Szymo cannot compete with them on lowers. The guy is a PATW master. He can do PATW in, out, PMATW, and PTATW. I think he is pretty close to the same level. My point was there is a bias in what is enjoyed by the average freestyler. They would much rather see these hardcore lowers than anything else. They also ignore the fact that sits and uppers can push the limits as well.
I also really don't like this clown shit you keep talking about. You do realize the group that will decide whether freestylers are clowns or not is the non-freestylers in the world. What makes freestyle cool and different from circus arts to the outside world is the "football" aspect. If it's not football freestyle, it's circus juggling. If anything, the whole obsession with pushing the limits in lowers alone is more clown shit to me than being creative. I don't think any style of freestyle should be criticized and called clown shit.
Non-freestylers will be entertained by anything with good execution and a good variety of tricks. Any lowers only video might be boring to them, because they do not understand the difference between the tricks. It's actually a very few non-freestylers that notice the difficulty of a 3 revolution trick. This comes up all the time. Why do easy tricks get more response than hard tricks? It's because the average non-freestyle responds to what looks cool than what is hard. If someone like Skora does an AEATW combo in front of an entire non-freestyle crowd, I personally think I could fool them into thinking I'm better by just doing some simple sole juggling tricks. I know what many of you are going to say. Sole juggling is way easier. Well, you have to think like a non-freestyler. Is throwing your legs around a ball look easier or more impressive, or is juggling almost upside down with the bottom of your feet more impressive? Most will say soles, because they've never seen anything like that.
I have nothing against people trying to push the limits to become the 1st to land particular trick and combos. That's not really the point of this thread. The point of this thread is to not only put emphasis on landing these hardcore tricks. You can do both hardcore and more creative.
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"Hardcore" mentality and balance is only derived from a through execution of basics,through patience and enduring trainings.That is the essence of improvement right?To get to a higher level and combining various techniques only after practice in its corresponding basics.Every hardcore trick can be mapped to a set of "pre movements" of that corresponding hardcore trick.Hence,rigorous trainings of these "pre-movements"(which can be generalised in "basics") will not only improve muscle memory,but also to an extent,the speed and balance.And once such a level is attained for any individual-getting a,lets say 3-rev move(corresponding to those pre-movements),would be much much easier than lets say another individual whose had no experience of such pre-movements, but yet is forcing himself upon that trick-THIS is what imo comes across as "bad style".
Also,these "basics" which i mentioned need not be only atws,or htws,etc.It may be anything as long as it is(few)level(s) lower than,lets say a target 3 rev. trick which someone may be aiming for.
So the entire notion of "hardcore" is nothing but an attempt at combining pre-movements to get a result trick.The efficiency or"ease" of this comes across as style.
I'm just being more specific to what Adi had hinted earlier.
So yes,
a)it is possible for someone to inconsistently reach certain level of hardcoreness without rigorous basics leading to it-yielding "hard" or bad style most of the times.
b)But what that someone would have failed to learn in the entire process is that-The same level of the certain hardcoreness which he had achieved(that too inconsistently with bad stlye),could have been easily achieved with systematic progress in at a lower level-yielding a much more relaxed style and increasing the consistency as well
PS:All this in connection to lowers ofc :13:.And sorry if this was a bit repetetive,just trying to make it clear. :)
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These are the elite freestylers I specifically excluded from my comments. The elite can pull of hardcore moves while also making them look sexy. This is because they are consistent, accurate, and just damn good.
But i saw you say in a previous post that you rather watch a Michryc vid over an Ethan vid because Michryc is more stylish. And you also said you are tired of hardcore fs and would rather see something creative rather than one extra revolution. This is a totally different issue compared to fsers who skip basics.
Anyway, as i said before most freestylers want to do something impressive, not "to look sexy" or "to help grow freestyle". So, to them, each trick does not have to be perfect style.
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Anyway, as i said before most freestylers want to do something impressive, not "to look sexy" or "to help grow freestyle". So, to them, each trick does not have to be perfect style.
So,jabarinho,what you are indicating indirectly is that if someone just wants to do skmatw-so he tries skmatw 100 times or even more,until he gets it.Thats the approach you would follow,right?And even after he gets it,he would keep trying it again and again till he has "perfected" it?
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Jaba, the whole point of the thread is Hardcore vs Style(style is used wrong in this instance, should mean more creative or unique freestyle)
Both of these points are part of the discussion. That was part of his point. He said that many freestylers force hardcore tricks to compete, but it would look better if they mastered more basic tricks to make their execution better.
The other point is the more creative freestylers that do other things than just try to beat or match hardcore combos are more entertaining to watch to him. I don't see why some freestylers find this shocking. I think both Adi and I are amazed when someone like Ethan does a crazy combo we haven't seen before, but the total satisfaction may not be as great if it was from someone like Michrych, Luki, or someone else. We know what Ethan's progression most likely will be, 1 more revolution. With the more creative type freestyler, we have no clue what it will be, so the satisfaction is great with the bigger surprise.
Also, I'd like to point out. I'm not trying to say creative tricks are harder than hardcore tricks or visa-versa. I think the limits can be pushed in all aspects of freestyle. For me, I think this is what the ultimate goal should be. To be the best all-around.
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Your point completely missed my point entirely
Then you have to write it down better next time, because your point seems to be really deep :grin:
Yes, you can push limits everywhere, but my point was that lowers look much more sport-related, while uppers consists mainly of balancing the ball on your upper body.
If anything, the whole obsession with pushing the limits in lowers alone is more clown shit to me than being creative.
Well, if you think so, you can also call pushing the limits in BMX, Skateboard or breakdance clown shit as well. :great:
I agree more or less with the rest of the comment though.
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So,jabarinho,what you are indicating indirectly is that if someone just wants to do skmatw-so he tries skmatw 100 times or even more,until he gets it.Thats the approach you would follow,right?And even after he gets it,he would keep trying it again and again till he has "perfected" it?
no not at all, because it will look very ugly if the guy is not ready for the trick. I admit that the guy who is attempting skmatw is too focused on hardcore. But if the tricks are being done in a logical progression then hardcore is the best, even if the style is not perfectly smooth like a Michryc combo.
@redsforlife: yeh i realize there are 2 different issues here. i was just explaining why most would prefer an Ethan vid over a Michryc vid. I think it's ok to sacrifice a style a little when doing hardcore. But it depends on each person's taste to determine how much style can be sacrificed.
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by the way, hardcore is winning in the poll :13: Go hardcore!
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Thanks for breaking it down for me, Jason. Didn't feel like posting a response anyhow.
Style was leading in the poll before. I think the poll doesn't justify the discussions since we are going in depth and discussing two sides of the meaning behind "style."
Good posts so far.
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Nothing in freestyle can be considered more sport than any other type. The whole idea of a sport is competition. There is no true objective in freestyle, so no style can be more competitive than another. It's all a matter of judgement and opinion.
Pushing the limits has nothing to do with it being clown shit. I don't need to write my post better. You need to read them better. I also said that no style should be considered clown shit in response to you considering more creative styles that. It's not the tricks of hardcore that make it that way. It's how many of the freestyle community that believe it is better than other styles behave. This is why I think it's closer to that than anything else.
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If you want to look like you're spazzing out when you're freestyling, then just pick up a hacky sack and do that. Now those clowns look like nerds and tools. Freestyle is heading more and more into that direction. Stop it before it's too late.
Unfortunately, I think there are parts of the community pretty much already there. You actually see many freestylers that appreciate footbag more than football.
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Im not sure about others, but to me, its quite clear that I will consider lowers more sport than uppers/sole juggling, just like I consider running more sport than chess (I dont really understand why are chess considered as sport though :( )
Also, you dont see people from circus doing air combos, but its quite common they do some sole juggles (not just with a ball, but also with other objects) and then there are also people like Trixie, coming from circus and doing pretty much the same thing what we nowadays call "uppers".
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lol redsforlife and Adi you have literally zero clue what you are talking about when it comes to hardcore lowers :P
Just accept that freestyle is splitting off in different directions and let people train how they want to train. There will be people like myself who's primary goal is to push the limits of what is physically possible with my legs and there will be people who's primary goal is to reach their highest possible level whilst maintaining a perfect style (e.g. Rocco) and neither of us are right or wrong...it's just our personal goals and it dictates how we do our training.
On the other hand others are trying to bring fresh ideas in, that's cool too...Gautier etc
This is a pointless topic, freestyle won't flourish as a sport if it's held back by people like you who want to restrict it to 'how it used to be'
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:iagree: lol but think its a good thread
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just do tricks with a ball ....init.
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Hardcore without style is meh. Style without some hardcore tricks gets boring fast. Lucky there is absolutly no reason to choose just one.
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I wanna join, but have nothing to say
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Onas- So I'm getting that your point is that lowers are more of a sport, because it requires more athleticism. This makes other areas not a sport, because it takes less athleticism. Am I right?
You do realize that many circus performers are extremely atheletic, more so than lowers. By this logic, those circus arts would be more sport than lowers. I don't get the comparison of chess and uppers and soles. I wouldn't consider chess a sport either. Uppers, sits, and grounds would still be considered athletics and not all uppers and sits are less athletic than lowers. This is what I don't get about your argument. I argue that all styles should be considered the same, but you insist on lowers being thought of as being better.
Ethan- You criticize me and Adi, than you more or less agree that people should do what they want. I said that I appreciate all aspects of freestyle hardcore, creative, etc. The whole point of this thread was that it's become the only type of freestyle you typically see. It would be nice to see some different things. There is nothing wrong with wanting that.
This is what I don't get about my opposition in this argument. I ended up defending the rest of freestyle being just as much of a sport as lowers, and I'm the guy that doesn't understand anything. I know I am trying to find equal ground with you guys, but too many of you want your area to be thought of as superior.
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Ethan- You criticize me and Adi, than you more or less agree that people should do what they want. I said that I appreciate all aspects of freestyle hardcore, creative, etc. The whole point of this thread was that it's become the only type of freestyle you typically see. It would be nice to see some different things. There is nothing wrong with wanting that.
This is what I don't get about my opposition in this argument. I ended up defending the rest of freestyle being just as much of a sport as lowers, and I'm the guy that doesn't understand anything. I know I am trying to find equal ground with you guys, but too many of you want your area to be thought of as superior.
Agreed. Ethan, you come out with an insult, but then your argument tends to fall in line with what we were saying. Nothing wrong with hardcore, we just want some balance. It seems 95% of freestyle is going into mediocre hardcore, which is getting boring. Hardcore is great, don't get me wrong, but it's gotta be done right. Seeing that the vast majority of freestyle videos nowadays are sloppy hardcore vids is not all that interesting or appealing.
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Onas- So I'm getting that your point is that lowers are more of a sport, because it requires more athleticism. This makes other areas not a sport, because it takes less athleticism. Am I right?
:13:
I argue that all styles should be considered the same, but you insist on lowers being thought of as being better.
I never said something like that if I remember correctly. I just want to explain you why so many people chose lowers over other parts of FS. But yeah, I dont really like other parts at all (maybe apart from some Bboy stuff) so I like to call them "clown shit", hope you dont mind .)
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So you are hypocritical and ignorant? Congratulations :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
There are more than enough post of you saying that including your last one. Also, you like bboy part of freestyle, but don't respect the other areas. That's one part of freestyle I fucking hate. Now, I usually just ignore it, but I really cannot see how you consider uppers sits, and grounds to be clown shit and bboy moves aren't? That makes no sense at all.
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So you are hypocritical and ignorant? Congratulations :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
There are more than enough post of you saying that including your last one. Also, you like bboy part of freestyle, but don't respect the other areas. That's one part of freestyle I fucking hate. Now, I usually just ignore it, but I really cannot see how you consider uppers sits, and grounds to be clown shit and bboy moves aren't? That makes no sense at all.
Yeah, whats so bad about it? :)
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I like bboy/tricking stuff itself, so I also like it when its combined with FFS ffs.
Also, you dont usually see this kind of freestyle in circus either.
EDIT:
In the end, its only about personal preferences, I dont know what got you to love allround freestyle so much, but I find much more advantages in training lowers and you arent going to change my mind.
Some of the advantages of lowers for me
+ lowers are quite good cardio, therefore as I once used to be quite fat, Im in a good shape now
+ you dont have to be sitting on some ground full of shit or rolling the ball which previously happened to fall into some dog poo
+ stylish & clean lowers look much cooler than anything else (imo)
+ clowns dont do that :grin:
Some of the advantages of sitdowns & uppers
(http://www.origodarek.cz/img/thumbnail/57036-podlozka-pod-mys-bitch-please.jpg)
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Props for admitting to being hypocritical and ignorant.
Actually, you do see bboy stuff in the circus quite often. It's popular among people, and it's the type of act that many circus's can find.
Now, I really have nothing against circus arts. It's more the term, "clown shit" that I dislike. Many circus performers are extremely talented and extremely athletic. The fact is that certain circus arts, like acrobatics, have their own sports outside of the circus acts.
Really though, what separates freestyle from circus arts is the football aspect. Lowers would be a part of that, but it should never be limited to just that. The fact of the matter is lowers only as a sport will never flourish outside the community. It will only be popular at freestyle events and online. The entire body of freestyle could be popular at any event and within any community online.
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To be honest, I dont have a clue how circuses look like nowadays, I havent been there since I was 5 I think
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Last time I noticed, clowns don't perform anything similar to freestyle, jugglers do. Well, I respect your opinion to prefer one style, but I never tried to change that.
As far as your advantage for lowers goes.
Cardio: Well, pretty much any freestyle is good cardio. Only sitting isn't quite as good, but it's great core exercise. Also, the act of transitioning from sitting to standing is probably the most intense workout you can get in freestyle. It requires the most energy.
Dog poo: Well, I am pretty sure there are places you could train this without it. Poor joke by the way.
Looks better: That's your opinion, and I respect that. I never tried to change that.
Now for why I prefer all around
1. I started as a footballer, and I like being able to control the ball with all surfaces of my body. The feet standing is the most simple form which I had already mastered before beginning freestyle. I learned basic control with all body surfaces and sitting before I progressed to learning tricks.
2. Looks better: I think it looks better to do a bit of everything. I prefer seeing things that surprise me, and all around opens far more avenues.
3. Like I said, all freestyle is good exercise. There are actually uppers tricks like back or chest juggles that are more intense workouts than lowers, because they use larger muscle groups.
Any circus juggler that has done anything that can be compared to any type of freestyle has also done basic lowers as well. The difference is football freestylers specialize in only the freestyle tricks, so we master more advanced tricks in all areas. Obviously, lowers is the most popular area. It's more natural to juggle with your feet standing, and most people's first tricks for atw or cross. From there, it's only natural to improve this area and enjoy it the most.
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Style = get hot chicks and be mr cool :)
Hardcore = wearing glasses and be a nerd....then you become a genius millionaire and get hot chicks
Result : Freestyle the way you want because you will get hot chicks!
:13: :13: :13:
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if fs is a way of getting hot chicks....then i'll keep going lol :great:
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I think this thread is leading to nowhere, lol, you are not going to change my mind and I dont even want to change yours.
Just let people enjoy what they want. :039:
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Style is ahead now. :sign0151:
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Hardcore is just kicking the ball straight up and throwing your legs around it, the skill-full part is what your legs are doing, not what you are doing with the ball. Freestyle use to be about control/creativity/transitions/style.. now days the focus is so much on getting that next hard trick, most don't care for style or execution, if they can somehow throw their legs to rotate again in the air. Even if it is incredibly ugly... repetitive.. i respect hardcore and i think FS needs hardcore stylers but i wish other styles were respected equally and trained equally.
Style 100%
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Hardcore is just kicking the ball straight up and throwing your legs around it, the skill-full part is what your legs are doing, not what you are doing with the ball.
Hardcore is more than this. While doing a hardcore combo the ball must be the correct height and distance which needs a good touch and control and it must be done while moving at high speed, which makes control harder. And some tricks create a lot of spin which is hard to control sometimes.
I know some people may disagree but i think hardcore needs a lot of control, touch and precision.
I think some guys do nt combos and other hardcore moves so easily that some people may think it does not need a lot of ball control.
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Totally agree bro! ^^ just saying, its more about what the leg can do rather what you can do with the ball. I think everyone needs to respect all styles, i just get mad when people hate on my vids for not doing around the worlds. I do the tricks i enjoy to do and that is what FREEstyle is all about ;)
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haha, i knew someone would hate on Olly's description of hardcore lowers. Obviously, hardcore lowers are much more physical than technical. The technical level isn't really what makes much of the tricks or combos hard, it's the power and speed needed to pull this off.
Hardcore guy, don't take that as a criticism. I don't know why you would take it this way. It's extremely impressive to see people move their legs this quickly.
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@redsforlife: I'm not a hardcore guy and I didn't take it as criticism. I also was not hating because i know some people see it differently. I was just saying hardcore is more than speed and power.
I don't think either of us are in a position to judge hardcore technique. But from my view the is a lot of technique and ball control in it. To move your feet fast while controlling the ball and get the right placement to continue a combo you have to have a great touch and ball contol.
From what i know placement of the ball is very important in these combos, which needs crazy ball control. Fast legs mean nothing without this.
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haha, i knew someone would hate on Olly's description of hardcore lowers. Obviously, hardcore lowers are much more physical than technical. The technical level isn't really what makes much of the tricks or combos hard, it's the power and speed needed to pull this off.
Hardcore guy, don't take that as a criticism. I don't know why you would take it this way. It's extremely impressive to see people move their legs this quickly.
You must sure know alot about hardcore, dont you? :D
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Knnth- Hardcore guys are sometimes quick to hate on non-hardcore guys talking about hardcore lowers, but they are also very quick to hate on non-hardcore freestylers period. Now, I never once said I'm an expert on hardcore lowers, but when we break it down it's just simple technique and physics. If you can do the basic lowers techniques, you have the technique to do the harder ones if you understand the physics to it. Easy way to look at it is if you can do 10atws, you have the technique to do 100, you just don't have the stamina.
The difference between doing latw and patw is mainly you need a higher touch and a quicker foot. Now, you definitely need a proper touch, but it's the speed of the foot that is difficult.
matw and amatw nt tricks for the most part are another example. All matw or amatw nt tricks are the same technique repeated. It's just extremely hard physically to find the power to do the matw or amatw cleanly to set up the next matw or amatw.
True masters of hardcore lowers are exceptions to this rule in some ways. They combine the super quick and powerful movements with a extremely wide variety of tricks. This is an example of much more technical parts of hardcore lowers.
Before you hate on me for this, just think about it. It's really a matter of simple physics than a knowledge or ability in freestyle. Physics don't lie. I'll be the 1st to say that hardcore lowers are extremely impressive, especially from the masters. I just think that other styles can be just as impressive, and simple physics are how you figure out how anyone is doing a move.
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Here's another thought. Compare freestylers like Gautier and Skora. Gautier's tricks are much technically harder than Skora's, but Skora's tricks are much physically difficult than Gautier's.
Which one you like better is up to you. I am personally a fan of both.
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Nah man, don't take me wrong i'm not a hater on non-hardcore freestyle(rs). I love the style of MS as much as hardcore lowers, i just dont like to do it myself :D
I just dont agree that the creative kind of freestyle is harder technically than hardcore lowers, both are equally hard imo
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I respect that opinion. I am just curious if you got my point. I said they were equal, but different aspects of tricks make them harder. That's why I used the Gautier and Skora comparison. Neither of them are capable of doing each others routines. Gautier's tricks have extreme technical intricacy and many different variations. Skora's lowers in particular show his amazing athleticism which very few people can match. He has amazing explosive athleticism.
My whole point is they are different, but equal.
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Now the main theme of the thread changed a bit. We were talking about people that do 3 rev tricks without mastering the basic moves/combos - we were basically talking about lowers.
And now we are comparing Skora and Gautier, lol :wtf:
I think this is also affecting the poll.
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Style is kicking the shit out of Hardcore in the poll. :098:
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LOLOLOLOLOLOL......Long juicy cock VS hardcore :cheesy: :hee20hee20hee:
long juicy cock is kicking the shit out of Hardcore in the poll. :098:
When u write FREEESSTYYLE (normal spelling) it says "danny mcghee" and when u write STTYYLE it says "long juicy cock" :33:
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS IS SO EPIC
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:043:
I wonder which prick did this. :lol_hitting:
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maybe you should ask this guy.
https://www.facebook.com/danny.mcghee.94 (https://www.facebook.com/danny.mcghee.94)
apparently he's a freestyler, so it's either him or someone he knows.
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haha lolllz!! :grin: Classic! ....... :You_Rock_Emoticon:
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Wtf?
There are both stylish and hardcore freestylers. A freestyler can have both lol, one doesn't rule out the other
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If you read through the topic, you will see that has been discussed already. The reason the topic has been drawn out so far is there are enough hardcore freestylers and fans that just keep saying other types of freestyle are lesser forms. My stance from the beginning has been that a balance of the two is always more enjoyable to watch.