Beyond Football - Freestyle Football Forum
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: Royal Freakiness on Aug 12, 2010, 02:43: AM
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This is an interesting video.
Debate: Islam or Atheism? With Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists (Dr. Ed Buckner)
Debate: Islam or Atheism? With Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI9owlpOQl0#ws)
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I didn't watch the video because you wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't 'for' Islam :P
Also my net is slow at the moment.
And you know better than to have a religous debate on BF. You've seen how the other threads end up.
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adi said feel free to start a religion thread so I just saw this video
I haven't finished watching it completely
I felt like creating a new thread with the title of the video but maybe instead having multiple threads on religion we can have one lol. get what i mean?
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Oh okay. Got it :great:
I always see a picture that says something like:
If you are religious and you are wrong, nothing happens to you.
If you are an atheist and you're wrong, you go to hell.
~There is no point in being an atheist
I still think this thread will end up the same way as the others..
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yeah allright but can freestyle also be a religion should we all make videos about it and the someone will write a book with stories where freestylers are the main characters and then everyday around 12 o clock whe should laydown a matress(or something else) on the floor and do sits while your at school because of the religion and then we should pick a leader who can debate and convince more people that there is a freestyle god that would be so awesome
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yeah allright but can freestyle also be a religion should we all make videos about it and the someone will write a book with stories where freestylers are the main characters and then everyday around 12 o clock whe should laydown a matress(or something else) on the floor and do sits while your at school because of the religion and then we should pick a leader who can debate and convince more people that there is a freestyle god that would be so awesome
:lol_hitting:
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Feel free to discuss religion but please be careful about what you say. Speak you mind but don't offend others. It should be that hard. :great:
And yes... freestyle and football should be the two dominant religions. :celebrate:
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FSM forever.
(http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/files/2007/11/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
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FSM forever.
(http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/files/2007/11/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
I don't get this :017:
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FSM forever.
(http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/files/2007/11/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
I don't get this :017:
You've never heard of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
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FSM forever.
(http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/files/2007/11/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
I don't get this :017:
You've never heard of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Never. Is it some kind of cult?
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FSM forever.
(http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/files/2007/11/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
I don't get this :017:
You've never heard of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Never. Is it some kind of cult?
Pastafarianism is not a cult. Read this -- http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/ (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/)
This discussion may be a little too heady for this audience.
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"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer." so true
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Atheists: 'If God exists then why does my life suck?'
I hate those kind of atheists.
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IMO, if you believe in religion, it is more likely you will acheive in life! FACT!
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Best of Bill Maher on Religion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmUvhKr9SPk#)
Its actually so fucking funny watching this because its completely true!
I honestly find it impossible to believe in religion at all!
This song says it better than I'll ever be able to explain myself.
Devlin - Why (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R_2sY9QkLY#)
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What does everyone believe in and why?
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Islam. Some of the reasons are in these videos.
1 - Proof Of Islam - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth - Abdur-Raheem Green
1 - Proof Of Islam - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth - Abdur-Raheem Green (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOwA0v026wY#)
Muslim who turned to be atheist and back to Islam
Muslim who turned to be atheist and back to Islam. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD8AWqMUv18#ws)
Omar challenges Islam - TheDeenShow
Omar challenges Islam -TheDeenShow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6e0yLHrXTY#)
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personally, im a strong believer in god, but there will be a day where science proves all religions wrong, then i suppose religions will propose the whole idea "Believe in it and you will still go to heaven" sorta deal, im religious but once facts prove it wrong, ill still be religious, it makes things easier thinking someone up there has your back
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^ So you believe because you want to believe but still think what you believe in is wrong?
What if zeus was the god and all other religions were wrong..
Holeeee shit.
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Nobody understands the power of religion, religion is the strongest placebo effect known too man.
I used too have a very simular mindset too the TFs post, but after doing various studies, imma never knock religion again.
For example look at muhamed ali, and look at micheal jackson.
Both believe in two seperate religions, so only one is correct?
But how come, they both put all there sucess down too god.
In this post im not questioning whether or not religion is real, but relegion is so great for the mind, having the belief that god is on your side, a superior too anything in the world, makes you beleieve you will win, and will push forward.
Religion is such a powerfull tool, whether its the truth or not, nobody knows, however there are such benefits too it, down too the placebo affect.
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Yeah you're completely correct.
Spot on, it is a placebo effect. It isn't only positive though but it has evolved for some reason, and the reason? Maybe for creating tighter communities so that we work better together and as you said something to fight for, to push ourselves for.
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yeah whatever works for you if you think allah is the real god or god is or you think the spaghetti monster will save you then believe in that (personally i like to believe that oneday turtles will come and save me no offense it just my thing you know)
but if it makes your life better than believe the thing you want but remember one day when you die and you see turtles coming to you then you know that i was the right one don't be sad because you an always ask me to transfer you to another heaven but be warned !!!WE HAVE COOKIES!!!¡¡¡!!!
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religion gives you a sense of why you even exist
In Islam, we believe that this world is just a test, a test to see who deserves to go to Heaven. Allah (God), with His limitless Knowledge, could have just sent us to either heaven or hell. It's not like people are destined for heaven and others are doomed to go to hell, it's the people's own doings, it's only that Allah knows what will happen in advance, what the people will do. So in the hereafter people won't be like, "what did we do to deserve this fate, give us a chance and we will do it right."
this world belongs to Allah, whatever we do with it and our lives depends on us. that's why we live as Muslims, to try and earn our rights to heaven. How we do it, is a different story. Allah sent messengers to mankind in order to guide us how to earn those rights and Muhammad was the last and final messenger.
"There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in Allah, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for Allah is All Hearing and Knowing." 2:256
"But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you)." 16:82
"(Say to everyone of them,) 'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have (O Prophet) sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper." 4:79, 80
"And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith." 17:53, 54
"(O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (of Judgment) is near or far." 21:107 to 109
"To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do." 22:67
The media portrays us Muslims as perverted/pedo human beings who try to wage war and die as martyrs in order to receive 70 virgins in the end... so let whoever believes that believe what he wants. If you want to know more then read stuff made by our scholars. I won't go and read a manual on how to play football written by NFL officials and in it they say "soccer" is for gay people, now would I?
"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)
"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)
"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)
"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)
"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)
I'm curious, what do ppl of other faiths believe. why do they exist? why do they follow jesus, buddha etc...
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Great points :039:
What does everyone believe in and why?
I'd like to know this ^
Anyone an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist?
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Great points :039:
What does everyone believe in and why?
I'd like to know this ^
Anyone an agnostic theist or agnostic atheist?
im not quite sure why im religious, because i do believe we should believe the facts
but let me put it this way
most people believe in a god or a higher power because it makes life a bit easier to get by, the whole saying "everything happens for a reason" most people would like to believe god/higher power intended for that happen.
I went 100% blind in my right eye freshman year of highschool, at first i was kinda pissed about it because i thought id never be able to do uppers again, but it made me push myself and my limits and now i achieved what i would of never achieved if i hadn't gone through that incident, it made me go from training 30 mins a day too training 3-5 hrs consistantly every day and sometimes i did 24 hr sessions of fs, i personally believe god put me through that so i could achieve my maximum potential.
Plus the idea of eternal happiness in heaven doesnt sound to bad ;)
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Nobody understands the power of religion, religion is the strongest placebo effect known too man.
I used too have a very simular mindset too the TFs post, but after doing various studies, imma never knock religion again.
For example look at muhamed ali, and look at micheal jackson.
Both believe in two seperate religions, so only one is correct?
But how come, they both put all there sucess down too god.
In this post im not questioning whether or not religion is real, but relegion is so great for the mind, having the belief that god is on your side, a superior too anything in the world, makes you beleieve you will win, and will push forward.
Religion is such a powerfull tool, whether its the truth or not, nobody knows, however there are such benefits too it, down too the placebo affect.
I see what you are saying, but...
What about the other side of religion? All the wars, the dead people, the insecurities of those practicing a minority religion, the discrimination? Do the things you describe in your post outweigh the above? It's a good question to ponder...
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to me, whether religious or not, there will always be reasons for war. ppl will fight for food, for money, for land, for football teams, for musicians etc... and I believe religion is there to determine who is right or wrong. I hope yous understand. I'm not that knowledgeable in this area, just wanted to point out that religion is not the cause of all wars you know. IMO, religious ppl fight between one another because they see other religions as an insult to their religion. So they either preach by words, or cause a holy war. Hindus say god has many forms. Christians say, correct me if Im wrong, there is 3 in 1 god or something like that. Muslims say Allah (God) is only One, the Self-Sufficient Master, He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him. And atheists say there is no god, full stop. as you can see, each of them can't co-exist with one another.
they can have peace as in cease fire, but they won't stop. If atheists control a country and have power and everything, I'm sure they will try get rid of all of these religions by force. Atheist say they don't believe in anything when it's clear that they believe in science. so, in a sense, science is their god, science leads their way.
It's the same as ppl saying real madrid is much better than barcelona. or fernerbahce is better than galatasaray, or west ham is better than millwall, or man u is better than liverpool. They always fight each other. or even when ppl make a beyondfootball list of the top 20 fsers, they fight.
there can be no real peace, until one religion is considered the one true religion around the world. so ppl look try to look for a way to live, or as g-kid puts it "a placebo effect".
that's my opinion lol :celebrate: To me, I find that Islam is the one true religion, and if you really look into it, it's the most peaceful religion. To me, the Muslims are failing because of themselves, not Judaism or jews, not christianity or christians, and not atheism or atheists. The muslims are failing nowadays because of heedlessness towards their own religion. a lot of ignorant muslims nowadays, and some of them are a part of "al qaeda"... lol al qaeda.
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Nobody understands the power of religion, religion is the strongest placebo effect known too man.
I used too have a very simular mindset too the TFs post, but after doing various studies, imma never knock religion again.
For example look at muhamed ali, and look at micheal jackson.
Both believe in two seperate religions, so only one is correct?
But how come, they both put all there sucess down too god.
In this post im not questioning whether or not religion is real, but relegion is so great for the mind, having the belief that god is on your side, a superior too anything in the world, makes you beleieve you will win, and will push forward.
Religion is such a powerfull tool, whether its the truth or not, nobody knows, however there are such benefits too it, down too the placebo affect.
I see what you are saying, but...
What about the other side of religion? All the wars, the dead people, the insecurities of those practicing a minority religion, the discrimination? Do the things you describe in your post outweigh the above? It's a good question to ponder...
What do you believe in, Adi?
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In my opinion such thing as Atheist doesnt really exists. Humans are religious creatures. Even if you say you dont belive in anything, if you get in a situation where you are helpless, you will start praying.
Let me ask this:What would people do on a plane, that's about to crash?
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In my opinion such thing as Atheist doesnt really exists. Humans are religious creatures. Even if you say you dont belive in anything, if you get in a situation where you are helpless, you will start praying.
Let me ask this:What would people do on a plane, that's about to crash?
they call on "shit"...
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Although Im rather atheist, I think Christianity is a really ingenious religion. If you look at the raw form of it, with obeying all its rules (like no killing, no stealing, equality of all people), you just cant be evil being. Unfortunately, there are some homo weed smoking retards called popes with their subordinates and all of them think they are something more then other people and they are also closer to god, so they are allowed to kill and steal. Basically, some people are idiots and not even Bible helps them :)
Ive also read some Buddhist book and I find the concept of Buddhist doctrine really cool, its about (but not only about it) loving each other and teaching you how to live a very (and I mean VERY) happy life, so I think its a really peaceful religion :) However, they said in the book that you must help others AT FIRST, then think about yourself. Imo, they didnt realize there will always be some assholes profiting from it, so its not a perfect religion either.
And I was also reading what Satanism is about. From what Ive read about it, its not about humans and animals sacrificing at all, they just want to provoke Catholic Church n sh!t, so I find it far more peaceful than, for example, Islam :great:
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By the way I wouldn't call myself a christian, I'm beetween idealists and those who only belive in science. Obviously christianity has many good things, you can learn a lot of good things from it, but also a lot of bullcrap, and its the same with the other religions.
@Onas: Yes, If you look trough history, you can see the people used religion as an excuse to steal, rob, attack other countries, get power, even to get rid of a wife (Henrik the 8th made a new church beacuse the pope didn't let him divorce, haha.)
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@ Onas:
have you even researched on Islam? :017:
here's a thing to ponder on
the ppl of the highest order in christianity are almost completely separate from the ppl when it comes to secular matters. they don't marry, they don't do anything
the ppl of the highest order in buddhism live their lives in temples, worshipping. completely helpless ppl.
the ppl of the highest order in Islam? they marry, they have children. they eat amongst normal ppl like normal ppl do. they have businesses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals. they are politicians, they are knowledgeable about the rulings in Islam. they are religious leaders but still live normal lives. They will go to battle when necessary. they have fun with normal ppl, hang out with them etc... you don't see that in other religions. Islam is a COMPLETE way of life, not just a religion in theory. it's about practice too.
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@ Onas:
have you even researched on Islam? :017:
here's a thing to ponder on
the ppl of the highest order in christianity are almost completely separate from the ppl when it comes to secular matters. they don't marry, they don't do anything
the ppl of the highest order in buddhism live their lives in temples, worshipping. completely helpless ppl.
the ppl of the highest order in Islam? they marry, they have children. they eat amongst normal ppl like normal ppl do. they have businesses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals.
Wrong. The christian orthodox priests and what not, do marry, have children and eat with everyone and also do learn about the things you mentioned. The reason some of the monks go and live alone etc is so they are 'closer' to God with no distractions. They don't think of themselves as 'higher' beings as you were trying to convey. Same with catholic priests.
they care about animals
What about certain 'dirty' animals.
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I was talking about those in the vatican etc... but whatever, I'm talking out of my arse. I'm not that knowledgeable about other religions... :lol_hitting: :embarrassed:
dirty animals like pigs? mice, rats, scorpions, snakes, wild aggressive dogs etc...?
anyways
Does Islam promote Muslims to have bad Manners towards NON MUSLIMS TheDeenshow
Does Islam promote Muslims to have bad Manners towards NON MUSLIMS TheDeenshow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSU0FFDv7Og#)
for the christian bros here, some very interesting videos about christianity.
Salvation in Christianity and Islam?
Salvation in Christianity and Islam? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mlaGNJepNk#ws)
Passion of the Christ? Did Jesus really die for the sins of the world?
Passion of the Christ? Did Jesus really die for the sins of the world? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuM-xCBtBSE#)
Amazing Facts About the Bible with Former Christian: Dr. Jerald Dirks
Amazing Facts About the Bible with Former Christian: Dr. Jerald Dirks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k94n1GfBbcw#)
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Yes, like pigs.
And dude, those vids are way too long, can't you just give us the jist[sp?] of them?
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What about pigs? we don't eat them, we don't care for them. they're dirty animals who live on dirt :grin:
Question answered in Islamic website
A Christian is asking about the reason for the prohibition on pork
Why does Islam forbid pork, when the pig is one of the creations of God?.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12558/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12558/)
Isn’t pork forbidden in the Old Testament which forms part of your Holy Book?
“Do not eat any detestable thing. These are the animals you may eat… The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud, you are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.”
(Deuteronomy 14:3-8)
in the third video he gives a lot of facts about christianity, showing that some of the true message was changed, how christianity is not consistent with it's teachings etc... I've seen the video more than a year ago so I can't remember the specifics.
if you're really interested about learning the truth, then watch it lol. Also, watch the video on how he became Muslim. It's somewhere in the related stuff. he's a doctor of divinity in harvard and was christian minister who, by Allah's Will, reverted to Islam. He knows his stuff well.
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Isn’t pork forbidden in the Old Testament which forms part of your Holy Book?
Implying I follow any holy book.
I read most of the reasoning, but why pigs and not cows or sheep[I think sheeps live on the same 'dirt']? I understand that it's not all that healthy, but there are alot of foods that aren't healthy either, but I don't think that all of those have been ruled out too.
Damiano, there is no agnostic by itself. It has to be either agnostic theist or agnostic atheist.
Also, I'm just asking because I want to know, I'm not trying to say one way is correct or wrong...like some of the more ruder people!
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There is no god, that has been proving by the worlds smartest man, Steven Hawking, who has triple the IQ and Knowledge than any of you, so royal, you are wrong, that is a simple fact.
But theres nothing wrong with beleving in religion, if it benefits your life go for it, most people that have cancer or serious diseases, the ones that beleive in god tend too have a higher survival rate, which is got alot more too do with the placbo affect and the nervous system, but if you genuiley beleive that Mr. Hawkings is wrong, then you too close minded.
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The difference between science and your "holy books" is that science shows pure facts.
@ Lis the reason they don't eat pork is because when the Quran was written pigs carried alot of diseases. This caused alot of deaths.
Because they didn't have much knowledge back then they thought it was a sign from God that they shouldn't be touching or eating this animal.
I could be wrong though.. just my theory.
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There is no god, that has been proving by the worlds smartest man, Steven Hawking, who has triple the IQ and Knowledge than any of you, so royal, you are wrong, that is a simple fact.
But theres nothing wrong with beleving in religion, if it benefits your life go for it, most people that have cancer or serious diseases, the ones that beleive in god tend too have a higher survival rate, which is got alot more too do with the placbo affect and the nervous system, but if you genuiley beleive that Mr. Hawkings is wrong, then you too close minded.
I think you are the one being close minded and arrogant with your placebo comments. You clearly don't understand that religion is built on faith and not facts. If faith is attempted to be proven as fact, the 'faith' part is gone and is no longer a belief.
Anyway, could you post the link to the disproofing of God.
What do you believe regarding the creation of everything?
@Ricke: Thanks, that sounds like a logical explanation.
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G-man is probably talking about the new book Hawking released: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Design_(book) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Design_(book))
It's supposed to prove that because of the law of gravity the universe can create itself from nothing.
I have not read it, but it does seem like an interesting book.
Anyway, even if there were proof it would not stop people from believing. (Which is fine and I understand why).
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There is no god, that has been proving by the worlds smartest man, Steven Hawking, who has triple the IQ and Knowledge than any of you, so royal, you are wrong, that is a simple fact.
But theres nothing wrong with beleving in religion, if it benefits your life go for it, most people that have cancer or serious diseases, the ones that beleive in god tend too have a higher survival rate, which is got alot more too do with the placbo affect and the nervous system, but if you genuiley beleive that Mr. Hawkings is wrong, then you too close minded.
I think you are the one being close minded and arrogant with your placebo comments. You clearly don't understand that religion is built on faith and not facts. If faith is attempted to be proven as fact, the 'faith' part is gone and is no longer a belief.
Anyway, could you post the link to the disproofing of God.
What do you believe regarding the creation of everything?
@Ricke: Thanks, that sounds like a logical explanation.
Im not being closeminded, im just well educated on the topic.
Religion should be based on facts, otherwise there should be no beleif, thats utter nonsense im sorry.
The placebo affect is a "fact", not an opinion, a scientifically proven fact.
The placebo affect is the strongest healing power known too man, more powerfull than any form of medicine.
Do what your want, im happy you or whoever else believes in religion, religion unites people, and can change peoples lifes in amazing ways, i wish i was a religious person, but i was never raised that way, ive got no problem with it! DO WATCHA WANT!
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we're just discussing damiano lol
not trying to cause a beyondfootball holy war :043:
anyways
g-kid
have you seen the video I posted in my first post? it should interest atheists
/watch?v=YI9owlpOQl0
I haven't read that book that hawking just wrote, but what came before the laws of physics if physics can create the most perfect designs... is it just pure chance that physics created the system of the universe? try to watch the video even if it's 2 hours long :lol_hitting:
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There is no god, that has been proving by the worlds smartest man, Steven Hawking, who has triple the IQ and Knowledge than any of you, so royal, you are wrong, that is a simple fact.
But theres nothing wrong with beleving in religion, if it benefits your life go for it, most people that have cancer or serious diseases, the ones that beleive in god tend too have a higher survival rate, which is got alot more too do with the placbo affect and the nervous system, but if you genuiley beleive that Mr. Hawkings is wrong, then you too close minded.
I think you are the one being close minded and arrogant with your placebo comments. You clearly don't understand that religion is built on faith and not facts. If faith is attempted to be proven as fact, the 'faith' part is gone and is no longer a belief.
Anyway, could you post the link to the disproofing of God.
What do you believe regarding the creation of everything?
@Ricke: Thanks, that sounds like a logical explanation.
Im not being closeminded, im just well educated on the topic.
Religion should be based on facts, otherwise there should be no beleif, thats utter nonsense im sorry.
The placebo affect is a "fact", not an opinion, a scientifically proven fact.
The placebo affect is the strongest healing power known too man, more powerfull than any form of medicine.
Do what your want, im happy you or whoever else believes in religion, religion unites people, and can change peoples lifes in amazing ways, i wish i was a religious person, but i was never raised that way, ive got no problem with it! DO WATCHA WANT!
There you go, you've done it again. I'm not going to argue anything with you for you are much too close minded to even realise that your mind is completely closed to all other ideas. And fwiw, I am not religious. You've presumed this because I have kept an open mind about everything in this topic thus far, except for what you've been saying.
@Damiano: Assuming you know what agnostic is, agnostic theist would you believe in one form of a higher dietry and atheist would agnostic atheist would not.
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we're just discussing damiano lol
not trying to cause a beyondfootball holy war :043:
anyways
g-kid
have you seen the video I posted in my first post? it should interest atheists
/watch?v=YI9owlpOQl0
I haven't read that book that hawking just wrote, but what came before the laws of physics if physics can create the most perfect designs... is it just pure chance that physics created the system of the universe? try to watch the video even if it's 2 hours long :lol_hitting:
But what came before God then?
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watch the video in my first post and you will get the answer. very clear answer.
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@ Onas:
have you even researched on Islam? :017:
here's a thing to ponder on
the ppl of the highest order in christianity are almost completely separate from the ppl when it comes to secular matters. they don't marry, they don't do anything
the ppl of the highest order in buddhism live their lives in temples, worshipping. completely helpless ppl.
the ppl of the highest order in Islam? they marry, they have children. they eat amongst normal ppl like normal ppl do. they have businesses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals. they are politicians, they are knowledgeable about the rulings in Islam. they are religious leaders but still live normal lives. They will go to battle when necessary. they have fun with normal ppl, hang out with them etc... you don't see that in other religions. Islam is a COMPLETE way of life, sses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals. they are politicians, they are knowledgeable about the rulings in Islam. they are religious leaders but still live normal lives. They will go to battle when necessary. they have fun with normal ppl, hang out with them etc... you don't see that in other religions. Islam is a COMPLETE way of life, not just a religion in theonot just a religion in theory. it's about practice too.
I didn't say Islam isn't peaceful, I said satanism is maybe more peaceful than Islam :great: I don't think all Muslims are that bad (although the Jihad part can suck a dick), but I don't like some restrictions that Islam carries with it. For example, a man (I think he was from Pakistan) who converted from Islam to Christianity, had to be beheaded by local laws. So if you are a muslim, could you tell me what's so bad about someone's personal choice of what he decides to believe in?
Not to mention banning all portraits of people, music (that's what I heard, it's on you to say if I'm right or wrong) and I even heard an interesting theory that in some countries like Iran exist concentration camps, very similar to the ones used by Nazis or people from North Korea...
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@ Onas:
have you even researched on Islam? :017:
here's a thing to ponder on
the ppl of the highest order in christianity are almost completely separate from the ppl when it comes to secular matters. they don't marry, they don't do anything
the ppl of the highest order in buddhism live their lives in temples, worshipping. completely helpless ppl.
the ppl of the highest order in Islam? they marry, they have children. they eat amongst normal ppl like normal ppl do. they have businesses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals. they are politicians, they are knowledgeable about the rulings in Islam. they are religious leaders but still live normal lives. They will go to battle when necessary. they have fun with normal ppl, hang out with them etc... you don't see that in other religions. Islam is a COMPLETE way of life, sses. they learn science, maths, geography etc... they can be doctors, scientists, accountants, explorers etc... they care about animals. they are politicians, they are knowledgeable about the rulings in Islam. they are religious leaders but still live normal lives. They will go to battle when necessary. they have fun with normal ppl, hang out with them etc... you don't see that in other religions. Islam is a COMPLETE way of life, not just a religion in theonot just a religion in theory. it's about practice too.
I didn't say Islam isn't peaceful, I said satanism is maybe more peaceful than Islam :great: I don't think all Muslims are that bad (although the Jihad part can suck a dick), but I don't like some restrictions that Islam carries with it. For example, a man (I think he was from Pakistan) who converted from Islam to Christianity, had to be beheaded by local laws. So if you are a muslim, could you tell me what's so bad about someone's personal choice of what he decides to believe in?
Not to mention banning all portraits of people, music (that's what I heard, it's on you to say if I'm right or wrong) and I even heard an interesting theory that in some countries like Iran exist concentration camps, very similar to the ones used by Nazis or people from North Korea...
And one more thing. You said the people of the highest order in Buddhism live thier lives in temples, worshipping... There is a chance I misunderstood the conception of Buddhism, but it's wrong to image Budha like some badass powerful god that punishes every sinner and laughs at him. He is the MAN who found the way how to really enjoy your life, how to make peaceful world. Who knows if he was right... But as far as I remember, there weren't many restrictions, they were more like advices (like no fucking/having sex/having a passion love before getting married) and by abiding those advices, you should find a true peace or something, lol :rolleyes:
But if this is their way of having a life & enjoying a life, what's wrong about it? Some people says us, freestylers, don't have a life as well, doing same thing over and over again...but we enjoy it, they don'T have a clue how this sport is enjoyable, so I don't care about some noobish footballers talking shit if I find it the best way of having a life :great:
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you haven't read on Islam and it's teachings after all...
you're only looking at what the major media portrays
research the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS) (ways, actions, sayings, and those actions and sayings he approved of). see if there's anything about having concentration camps, whether it be muslims or non-muslims
you don't know what jihad means.
Ruling on jihad and kinds of jihad
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/20214 (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/20214)
in response to your thoughts about apostasy
Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/20327/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/20327/)
Why death is the punishment for Apostasy
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/811/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/811/)
The punishment for the apostate is execution. Why such harshness?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12406/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12406/)
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All you people opting for science and facts against religion are not doing the right thing. Science is great, but doesnt make us equal to God.
If u say science works by the way of proof and turns it in to law. think again.
It took Einstein (better than S. Hawking) less then 3 centuries to put Newton's laws into trouble and things working in Newton's comfort zone started to fail when Einstein put them to test.
And Einstein's E=mc2 gave results (like the horrible atom bomb) but now it is under question on another level.
Explosions defying Einstein? - Death Star - BBC Horizon science (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYT9fFmWG4#ws)
Georg Ferdinand Ludwig Philipp Cantor probably the GREATEST mathematician of all time, who dared to go beyond infinity had numerous nervous breakdowns and constantly went into rehab.others too..
BBC-Dangerous Knowledge (Part 1-10) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw-zNRNcF90#)
Math which was the first thing humans used for logic and proof and in the end FACTS has not helped them much. Einstein's misery in his words :
"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."
The comfort a king enjoyed when people lived in caves was much greater than what science gives to an average man now.
I dont hold anything against anyone . I m just saying people here should not hang on to science to go against religion.
Seriously, u can only talk about religion if u have been into it otherwise all u will see is what is in your face. Like billy wingrove is in the face of the world except those of us who know.
(26spyker's friend,i use his account for bf..)
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Islam has nothing against science or technological advancements
How can the Muslims reconcile between striving for the Hereafter and striving for worldly purposes?
Question: In this world if the muslims dedicate all their time and actions for the benifit in the hereafter (aakhira)not doing any worldly matters, then how can the muslums contribute to the benifits of civilisation and humanity such as in technology, science and inventions?.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/69747/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/69747/)
Mankind’s need for religion
Question: Why do people need religion? Isn’t it enough to have (man-made) laws that will regulate people’s lives?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/14055/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/14055/)
Evidence that the Qur'aan is the Word of Allaah
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13804/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13804/)
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Yes, I wont deny that Ive never read Qur'aan, maybe more because of I didnt know how it will affect me than because of my own laziness. You still didnt change my opinion, but I will try to not say it (my opinion) loudly until when I check the links youve sent to me...and MAYBE checking the Quraan. Not because I fell in love with it, but because of acusing me that I dont know anything about it. Thanks for the links.
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There is no god, that has been proving by the worlds smartest man, Steven Hawking, who has triple the IQ and Knowledge than any of you, so royal, you are wrong, that is a simple fact.
But theres nothing wrong with beleving in religion, if it benefits your life go for it, most people that have cancer or serious diseases, the ones that beleive in god tend too have a higher survival rate, which is got alot more too do with the placbo affect and the nervous system, but if you genuiley beleive that Mr. Hawkings is wrong, then you too close minded.
I think you are the one being close minded and arrogant with your placebo comments. You clearly don't understand that religion is built on faith and not facts. If faith is attempted to be proven as fact, the 'faith' part is gone and is no longer a belief.
Anyway, could you post the link to the disproofing of God.
What do you believe regarding the creation of everything?
@Ricke: Thanks, that sounds like a logical explanation.
Im not being closeminded, im just well educated on the topic.
Religion should be based on facts, otherwise there should be no beleif, thats utter nonsense im sorry.
The placebo affect is a "fact", not an opinion, a scientifically proven fact.
The placebo affect is the strongest healing power known too man, more powerfull than any form of medicine.
Do what your want, im happy you or whoever else believes in religion, religion unites people, and can change peoples lifes in amazing ways, i wish i was a religious person, but i was never raised that way, ive got no problem with it! DO WATCHA WANT!
There you go, you've done it again. I'm not going to argue anything with you for you are much too close minded to even realise that your mind is completely closed to all other ideas. And fwiw, I am not religious. You've presumed this because I have kept an open mind about everything in this topic thus far, except for what you've been saying.
@Damiano: Assuming you know what agnostic is, agnostic theist would you believe in one form of a higher dietry and atheist would agnostic atheist would not.
Im not close minded you utter total egototistical little moron.
I personally have read lots of teachings from the bibile, the quaran, and so forth.
Religion is an amazing tool for both good and bad.
I have no problem with people that beleive in religion, i am open too suggestions, as i was protestant most of my life, surely me switching from that too Aethism proves im not close minded you fucking imberseel.
I dont beleive in a god simply because the universe is just too complicated, eg. species of bees inserting there eggs into a spiders head, If there was a god for me.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god, i just have made my mind up from the MANY theories i have read, coz thats what they are, theories, nothing is proven.
Honestly tho, i am not close minded, i beleive in most of the teachings in the bible and Quran, i just dont beleive in god.
Now shut the fuck up.
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G-kid getting aggressive..now they all will think religion creates hate....
its always the people!
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Im not close minded you utter total egototistical little moron.
I personally have read lots of teachings from the bibile, the quaran, and so forth.
....
..
i beleive in most of the teachings in the bible and Quran, i just dont beleive in god.
HURR DURR I'm not close minded because I read some stuff HURR DURR
You believe in most of the teachings, so what? Everyone knows that killing, stealing etc are wrong, you are not special.
i was protestant most of my life, surely me switching from that too Aethism proves im not close minded you fucking imberseel.
No it does not. It just means that you prefer fact over faith.
I dont beleive in a god simply because the universe is just too complicated, eg. species of bees inserting there eggs into a spiders head, If there was a god for me.
Don't you believe that there was nothing and then heaps of shit collided and then heaps of shit was formed? And a bee laying an egg is something you're worried about? Anyway, this part is irrelevant for we are not discussing if the existance of God would or wouldn't be able to make magic happen.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god
There is no evidence proving Gods existance. For someone who is so "educated" in the subject, you'd know that there would be no way that it is provable.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god, i just have made my mind up from the MANY theories i have read, coz thats what they are, theories, nothing is proven.
Honestly tho, i am not close minded
How can you have made your mind up and not have closed your mind to all other possiblities?
Think before you let shit out through your fingers and start swearing because you're a tad angry.
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Im not close minded you utter total egototistical little moron.
I personally have read lots of teachings from the bibile, the quaran, and so forth.
....
..
i beleive in most of the teachings in the bible and Quran, i just dont beleive in god.
HURR DURR I'm not close minded because I read some stuff HURR DURR
You believe in most of the teachings, so what? Everyone knows that killing, stealing etc are wrong, you are not special.
i was protestant most of my life, surely me switching from that too Aethism proves im not close minded you fucking imberseel.
No it does not. It just means that you prefer fact over faith.
I dont beleive in a god simply because the universe is just too complicated, eg. species of bees inserting there eggs into a spiders head, If there was a god for me.
Don't you believe that there was nothing and then heaps of shit collided and then heaps of shit was formed? And a bee laying an egg is something you're worried about? Anyway, this part is irrelevant for we are not discussing if the existance of God would or wouldn't be able to make magic happen.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god
There is no evidence proving Gods existance. For someone who is so "educated" in the subject, you'd know that there would be no way that it is provable.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god, i just have made my mind up from the MANY theories i have read, coz thats what they are, theories, nothing is proven.
Honestly tho, i am not close minded
How can you have made your mind up and not have closed your mind to all other possiblities?
Think before you let shit out through your fingers and start swearing because you're a tad angry.
Its like talking too a chimp, no matter what you say or tell them, there gonna throw utter shit at you either way.
I genuiely couldnt give a wank discussing this with you any further, its no use
Educate yourself on the topic, then holla at me.
Ignorant.
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Im not close minded you utter total egototistical little moron.
I personally have read lots of teachings from the bibile, the quaran, and so forth.
....
..
i beleive in most of the teachings in the bible and Quran, i just dont beleive in god.
HURR DURR I'm not close minded because I read some stuff HURR DURR
You believe in most of the teachings, so what? Everyone knows that killing, stealing etc are wrong, you are not special.
i was protestant most of my life, surely me switching from that too Aethism proves im not close minded you fucking imberseel.
No it does not. It just means that you prefer fact over faith.
I dont beleive in a god simply because the universe is just too complicated, eg. species of bees inserting there eggs into a spiders head, If there was a god for me.
Don't you believe that there was nothing and then heaps of shit collided and then heaps of shit was formed? And a bee laying an egg is something you're worried about? Anyway, this part is irrelevant for we are not discussing if the existance of God would or wouldn't be able to make magic happen.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god
There is no evidence proving Gods existance. For someone who is so "educated" in the subject, you'd know that there would be no way that it is provable.
Thats for me, i happily accept that there is eveidence showinig there is a god and there isnt a god, i just have made my mind up from the MANY theories i have read, coz thats what they are, theories, nothing is proven.
Honestly tho, i am not close minded
How can you have made your mind up and not have closed your mind to all other possiblities?
Think before you let shit out through your fingers and start swearing because you're a tad angry.
Its like talking too a chimp, no matter what you say or tell them, there gonna throw utter shit at you either way.
I genuiely couldnt give a wank discussing this with you any further, its no use
Educate yourself on the topic, then holla at me.
Ignorant.
Someone's angry because they don't have anything to counter with other than insults :rolleyes:
Bye :039:
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i havent all of the thread but can somone tell me does this thread or anyone have any info on the teachins of the nation of islam or the muslim commuinties?????
thiswould be helpful thanks
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nation of islam? that was organisation in america. Elijah Muhammad, Malcom X, and Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay) are the big names of the organisation. but they had their own brand of islam which was not orthodox .Malcolm X realised this big difference on his holy pilgrimage to Mecca and it was his reason of departure from the Nation, which led to his assassination.. After the death of the leader Elijah Muhammad his son dissolved it to join the mainstream orthodox islam in mid 70s. NOI was at its peak in the 60s in america.
Muslims have 2 major sects: sunnis and shias.
the taliban followed a new sect not popular in both shias and sunnis. they are wahabis/salafis.
Iran, Iraq and hizbullah in lebonan are majorly shia (mostly on news)
Rest of the muslim world is sunni.
I hope this helps..
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lol spyker. may Allah bless you.
before you mistakenly spread wrong ideas i kindly suggest you keep a low profile and learn more on sects in Islam
do you know who the salaf as-saalih are and what's the history of the term salafi? do you know who the tabe'een and the atba'at tabe'een are?
do you know that there is a sect that specifically calls them selves salafi and distances themselves from another sect who specifically call themselves ahlas sunna wal jama'ah and vice versa.
do you know who sufis are? ash'aris? berwelvis? deobandis? qutbis?
do you know who was Muhammad bin Abdul-Wahab and what he taught ppl?
did you know that wikipedia says that sheikh al islam ibn taymiyyah is a wahhabi!? Ibn Taymiyyah was there LOOOONG before Imam Abdul-Wahhab. Even the west classifies Ahmad ibn Hanbal a wahhabi... he's like 1000 years before abdul-wahhab
do you know where the term "Wahhabi" came from and when it started?
taaliban is not wahabi or salafi. they're what you call extremists. Usama bin laden shown in the media is what you call a khawaarij.
Do you know who shi'as are? what's there ideology?
if i ask, why do you hate shi'as, what will be your response? what have you read about in their teachings?
if i ask, why do you hate salafis/wahhabis, what will be your response? what have you read about in their teachings?
if i ask, why do you love to be called sunni, what will be your response? what have you read about in their teachings?
here's a question for you that you should ponder on, spyker. what's the difference between:
muslim
sunni
follower of the salaf as-saalih
ahl-alhadeeth
ahl-as-sunnah-wal-jama'ah
orthodox islam
?
(i forgot the names some other "so-called" "sects")
i suggest you do some actual research on what great scholars like muhammad bin abdul-wahhab, ibn taymiyyah, ibn baaz, othaymeen, albaani etc... taught ppl. see their actual works before blindly saying that they're part of another misguided sect.
I'm not trying to act all knowledgeable n stuff, i'm just asking you the questions that a student of knowledge asked me, which opened my mind more on other sects. it's better for us simpletons to learn more knowledge than to badmouth ppl who actually tried to acquire knowledge and teach it. :039:
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i m not arguing with you Royal..
if this got u offended..
the taliban followed a new sect not popular in both shias and sunnis. they are wahabis/salafis.
there is nothing wrong with it. they were an extension of wahabiism, even if they didnt follow the textbook wahabi/salafi ideology. Above i have used the word orthodox in terms of culture/tradition.
i was trying to give an outline. and if u want those questions answered i m not going to do them here, to save time and energy. the guy just wanted an intro
and i gave a good outline then u could ever give....
THE END. :039:
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i'm saying wahhabism is not a new sect, that's all
Imam Muhammad bin Abdul-Wahhaab tried to keep his teachings as simple and clear as possible and only sticking to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet and the teachings of those rightly guided who followed him. They're not his own thoughts and ideas. Hence, they're known amongst those neutral to "wahhabis" as sunnis.
His main interests, may Allah have mercy on him, were to abolish innovations (bid'a), such as grave worshiping of companions of the Prophet, and polytheism, especially in KSA.
Among those who criticize the use of the term Wahhabi is social scientist Quintan Wiktorowicz. In a footnote of his report, Anatomy of the Salafi Movement, he said:
"Opponents of Salafism frequently affix the "Wahhabi" designator to denote foreign influence. It is intended to signify followers of Abd al-Wahhab and is most frequently used in countries where Salafis are a small minority of the Muslim community but have made recent inroads in "converting" the local population to the movement ideology. ... The Salafi movement itself, however, never uses this term. In fact, one would be hard pressed to find individuals who refer to themselves as Wahhabis or organizations that use "Wahhabi" in their title or refer to their ideology in this manner (unless they are speaking to a Western audience that is unfamiliar with Islamic terminology, and even then usage is limited and often appears as "Salafi/Wahhabi")."
The truth about Shaykh al-Jilaani and Shaykh Ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12932/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12932/)
Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab – a reformer concerning whom many malicious lies have been told
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/36616/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/36616/)
Did Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab rebel against the Ottoman Caliphate and what was the reason for its fall?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9243/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9243/)
anyways it's a complicated subject that shouldn't complicate this thread :grin:
I'm giving you this knowledge because I know many, if not most, of the indian sub-continent (especially pakistan), love using the term "wahhabi". they use it as a sort of insult to those who don't celebrate the Prophet's birthday, practice suffism, dance for the spirit of the Prophet, and other innovations in Islam. just trying to pass on knowledge to a fellow muslim bro. :039:
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well fuk reading all that i just want to learn the teachings of islam cos i have been thinking of converting
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ohk. what makes u wanna convert?
this is a soccer forum. but i can try...
Pray 5 times a day (minimum takes around 20 mins in total), fast 30 days in a whole year.. go to holy pilgrimage once in a lifetime if u can afford. Once a year,give 2.5% of your savings (if any) to the deserving poor.
Belief. Oneness of God, The Last Prophet brought the final Message which wont change till the Judgment Day, Belief in angels, Belief in Quran and lastly belief in the Judgement Day(afterlife) where your deeds will be judged .
Islam encourages modesty, no premarital sex, no drinking alcohol, no pork and some other food restrictions.
On a personal note, i think a person should live with the thinking that u treat people like u wished to be treated and be honest to your conscience. It is the first step to be a good human, the rest just flows. If a person born in the jungles of amazon where no Quran/Bilbe/torah ever reached or where no preist/cleric ever visited God will judge the person(after death) not according to any religion but according to what he knew, how much honest was he to his conscience and if he treated others like he wished to be treated.
On a larger scale, i believe that all the wars and corruption can only come to an end if we unify under God, thats the only way to salvation.
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masha Allah. that's great news that you're interested, jammy :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
May Allah guide you to the right path
i'm sorry, those posts weren't for you lol, those are a bit advanced. i was just replying to spyker
a very short Introduction to Islam
http://islam.about.com/od/basicbeliefs/p/intro.htm (http://islam.about.com/od/basicbeliefs/p/intro.htm)
if you're interested, here's a more comprehensive introduction to islam compiled by my mother :grin:
She tried to make sure that the sources are only from known authentic literature written by scholars.
I suggest you read this.
Introduction to Islam
http://www.wefound.org/Introduction.pdf (http://www.wefound.org/Introduction.pdf)
if you're more interested on learning more detail before converting here are few of her works that i recommend you to read
A comprehensive compilation on the Oneness of Allah
http://www.wefound.org/Tawheed.pdf (http://www.wefound.org/Tawheed.pdf)
A comprehensive compilation on the pillars of Islam
http://www.wefound.org/Pillars.pdf (http://www.wefound.org/Pillars.pdf)
A comprehensive compilation on Belief in Allah
http://www.wefound.org/Aqeedah.pdf (http://www.wefound.org/Aqeedah.pdf)
Lastly, a comprehensive compilation on the Qur'an: Qualities and Sciences
http://www.wefound.org/Qur'an.pdf (http://www.wefound.org/Qur'an.pdf)
I have books in my library at home that are great for non-muslims who are interested in converting, but i can't find them online.
they're only a few pages long. if i have time, i'll try to search for them :039:
to spyker's above post, good job.
but the first thing to do to become a Muslim (first pillar of Islam) is to say the shahadah (testimony of faith) wholeheartedly
which is: laa ilaaha illallah, muhammad ar-rasoolullah
there is no true god except Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
another translation: there is no god worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah
without that all your actions will not be accepted even if they're good
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ok royal..next time i will write something u cant find a fault in..lol.
Peace to all.
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it wasn't a fault lol
you just forgot to write the 1st pillar of islam :grin:
also, Islam encourages a lot of good things. Actually, not encourages, it's made incumbent upon all Muslims. Kindness to neighbours, whether muslim or non-muslim. kindness to children. Respect to elders and parents. Hospitality to guests.
Good manners is one of the most important characteristics of a Muslim.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have only been sent to perfect good characteristics.” Narrated by Bukhari
Abu Darda' reported that the Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, said, "Nothing is weightier on the Scale of Deeds than one's good manners." Bukhari
Abu Huraira, r.a., said, "I heard Abu al Qasim (the Prophet saaws), say, 'The best among you in Islam are those with the best manners, so long as they develop a sense of understanding.' Bukhari
'Abd Allah ibn 'Amr said, "The Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, was never obscene or coarse. Rather, he used to tell us that the best among us were those with the best manners." Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi
Anas bin Malik said, "I served the Prophet of Allah, upon him be peace, for ten years. During that time, he never once said to me as much as 'Oof' if I did something wrong. He never asked me, if I had failed to do something, 'Why did you not do it?,' and he never said to me, if I had done something wrong, 'Why did you do it?'" Bukhari
Abu Huraira, r.a., said that the Prophet of Allah, saaws, said, "If one has good manners, one may attain the same level of merit as those who spend their nights in prayer." Bukhari
The Prophet of Allah, saaws, said, "He who does not show mercy to our young or show esteem for our elders is not one of us." Bukhari
many others other than good manners but my post is already long enough.
peace 2 all :great:
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wow big help thanks alot and just intrested cos i feel lost and in need of guidence
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no problem, mate
May Allah guide you to what you're looking for :039:
where's the simple smiling emoticon when you need it...
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1 - Proof Of Islam - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth
No offence, but that title is ridiculous. Religion is based on believe, not on proof. To proove something, you need science, and science is the opposite of religion.
I think Religion exists because of phenomens nobody could explain. Things like polar light, lightning, etc were belived to be something magic, sign of God (or Allah, whoever). But today, all those things many things can be explained scientifically.
I have no problem with people believing in anything, as long as they are not fanatic about it.
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1 - Proof Of Islam - The Proof That Islam Is The Truth
No offence, but that title is ridiculous. Religion is based on believe, not on proof. To proove something, you need science, and science is the opposite of religion.
I think Religion exists because of phenomens nobody could explain. Things like polar light, lightning, etc were belived to be something magic, sign of God (or Allah, whoever). But today, all those things many things can be explained scientifically.
I have no problem with people believing in anything, as long as they are not fanatic about it.
makes no sense at all.
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As Muslims we don't just believe just for the sake of believing. we have our reasons for believing and our proofs that islam is the true religion. all you do is :ecomcity: i bet none of you watched any of the videos i posted.
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you have the "true religion" if your satisfied in what you believe in. that's why everybody, no matter what religion he believes in, claims that his own religion is the right one.
By the way, if everybody chooses on his own what religion he believes in, isn't that a coincidence that 99% of the people have the same religion as their parents? If your parents were Jewish, you'd just write:
As Jews we don't just believe just for the sake of believing. we have our reasons for believing and our proofs that Jewry is the true religion. all you do is ecomcity i bet none of you watched any of the videos i posted.
Sounds well, doesn't it?
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to me, whether religious or not, there will always be reasons for war. ppl will fight for food, for money, for land, for football teams, for musicians etc... and I believe religion is there to determine who is right or wrong. I hope yous understand. I'm not that knowledgeable in this area, just wanted to point out that religion is not the cause of all wars you know. IMO, religious ppl fight between one another because they see other religions as an insult to their religion. So they either preach by words, or cause a holy war. Hindus say god has many forms. Christians say, correct me if Im wrong, there is 3 in 1 god or something like that. Muslims say Allah (God) is only One, the Self-Sufficient Master, He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him. And atheists say there is no god, full stop. as you can see, each of them can't co-exist with one another.
Huh? How? I don't see religion deciding a man's faith in court. At least not in the US. Freedom of religion baby! I don't want someone telling me who's right or wrong based on religion.
Of course religion is not the only cause of war but it's pretty damn popular. You kinda contradict yourself there in your statement. You say religion doesn't start many wars but then you talk about the importance of religion and how people get in wars because they want to prove one another wrong. Yes, some do it peacefully but as we've seem many don't.
Nobody understands the power of religion, religion is the strongest placebo effect known too man.
I used too have a very simular mindset too the TFs post, but after doing various studies, imma never knock religion again.
For example look at muhamed ali, and look at micheal jackson.
Both believe in two seperate religions, so only one is correct?
But how come, they both put all there sucess down too god.
In this post im not questioning whether or not religion is real, but relegion is so great for the mind, having the belief that god is on your side, a superior too anything in the world, makes you beleieve you will win, and will push forward.
Religion is such a powerfull tool, whether its the truth or not, nobody knows, however there are such benefits too it, down too the placebo affect.
I see what you are saying, but...
What about the other side of religion? All the wars, the dead people, the insecurities of those practicing a minority religion, the discrimination? Do the things you describe in your post outweigh the above? It's a good question to ponder...
What do you believe in, Adi?
Not sure yet... I think I'll figure it out later in life. Right now I'm not a religious guy but I somewhat believe that there is a God. I don't follow a specific religion. It's all the same with slightly different stories, if that. I am very open and don't side with any religion or belief. I wish more people were open minded like that. I don't like those that try to prove others wrong on religion. I Christian can't tell me he's right and all the Muslims are wrong or vise versa.
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Genghis khan, colonial era, hitler, stalin, ww1 and 2 (hiroshima) and many others are not famous for brutality with religion the cause. i dont agree with you adi. wars and violence are not because of religion. u dont have to be smart to know its human greed. Religion/cast/color/patriotism are used as excuse for war.
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that's the thing adi, what you don't understand is Islam is complete. It teaches us not only about spirituality and the path to paradise but also about legal rulings in the Shariah court, and about the more secular part of life (economics, business, science and what have you)
We have a complete guideline on how a caliph (a deserving pious leader voted by a united nation of muslims) should take care of the united ummah (state), how a caliph should deal with non-muslims, how people use money etc...
Currently, we don't have an actual Islamic ruling Ummah of muslims or a country that applies the Shariah.
Islam is not just a guideline on how to pray, how to fast, how to perform Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) etc.
It is a complete way of life.
It's just extremely unfortunate that the leaders of the Muslim world now are just ignorant tools... They don't know anything about their religion. Also, it's not only the leaders but the people who are problematic too. You get teenagers who are ignorant about their religion; they drink alcohol, they have sex, they do a lot of sinning, but are easily emotionally devastated by what happens in Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan etc... They are easy targets for extremists to round up and call for their "Jihad". These teenagers and their generation grow up as extremists.
I'm convinced that most people around the world just don't know what's happening in the Muslim world. This generation of Muslims is a complete mess.
You should see some of my friends. They're lost. But when they hear something like the WTC has been hit they just shout, "YEAH!! Death to those kuffars!" :Woot_Emoticon:
And you don't only get these ignorant extremists, you have 73 different sects in the Muslim world now, one of them being the extremists or what you call khawarij. :undecided: :17:
Did you know that these khawarij say, "Osama bin Laden is not religious. He doesn't cause enough damage." :great: No joke.
I can go on about why people have a bad image of Islam, but it's only gonna coz a headache.
Peacage. :039:
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No offense man, but why are you friends with extremists who who are happy about the WTC going down? :017:
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No offense man, but why are you friends with extremists who w
are happy about the WTC going down? :017:
It was an inside job, they just took the credit!
Oh, and what you said before sounds like an agnostic theist. :PDT_Armataz_01_37:
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no, i didn't know that their idea was like that. I'm not saying they're extremists now.
i was merely pointing out that many of those who turned extremist are ignorant people and that ppl who are like my friends are easy targets for extremist leaders call to their cause. :grin:
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Good question Adi.
I understand the logic, and the whole concept.
I personally disagree that religion is directly responsible for the wars etc
Got alot too do with the way the islamic religion is being viewed in the media, and alot too do with the fucking idiots that run the goverment.
Barrack Obama promised too offer a hand too the islamic faith on his first day of presidency, two days later he was dropping bombs in pakistan.
Same man that got a nobel PEACE prize, when he commited 20, 000 troops too afghanistan.
If you see the horrendous things that are going on in afghan, iraq etc...
I see the extremist point of view, even tho its completly wrong.
Afterall, the United states goverment trained the taliban, trained osama bin laden, gave them billions of dollars, Ofc the Afghani people are going too fight back with gorrila war fair and not let them rule there country, they funded there bloody enemy!
Look at how much money george bush, tony blair has made indirectly from iraq, through oil, bridges etc etc... And you wonder why people are up in arms.
I also find it wrong, how when its a soilder emtying his gun on islamic people, there classed as a hero, but when its a islamic man, detenating a bomb, hes a terrorist, there both as bad as each other.
The problem with the wolrd imo has nothing directly too do with relgion, it may play a part, but the main problem with the world is money, thats all that the goverment, the military, the media care about. That is the reason behind the wars, that is the reason behind every single fucking problem in society. That The goverment puts money before your life.
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guys, im sick of molesting kids.. i too wanna convert to islam so i can rape a woman then punish her for having sex with me!
nah just kiddin... but i hate religion they all suck!
firstly, i hope theirs a heaven but there probably isnt.. i just live my life trying to appreciate everything i have, being a good person in general, i know im a joker and stuff but i have a good heart, its hard to tell over the net sometimes, to be honest im really sad when anything happens no matter to what religion or peoples..
just treat others like you would like to be treated, and dont rape children.. the rest is common sense
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guys, im sick of molesting kids.. i too wanna convert to islam so i can rape a woman then punish her for having sex with me!
nah just kiddin... but i hate religion they all suck!
mate, easy on the jokes. There might be an al qaeda predator drone spying on you right now waiting to give the signal to an extremist to bomb your house :undecided:
dan, i understand your belief and i respect that you love a peace loving society.
Just an advice, sometimes it's better to be knowledgeable than ignorant. You hope there's a heaven but you don't want to find out if there's a heaven because you think there probably isn't. Why not try and search if there truly is a heaven. Try reading on Islam. If you still don't believe then that's up to you. Just saying.
good points g-kid
Power is one of the main reasons for war if not the main reason. Money fuels your power. The more money you control the more power you have.
I've watched some interesting documentaries about the Masons, Illuminatis, Bilderberg and other similar power-hungry secret societies.
I don't know if it's true that these groups are behind all the wars and if they're trying to bring about what they call "The New World Order", but those indie documentaries seem convincing.
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Royal Freakiness i assume you were taught Islam from an early age, no offense but if you were taught any other religion from an early age, you would believe in that too. i mean if your taught to believe something for long enough, your going to believe it right? and the thought of what you have been taught being wrong, surley is impossible to comprehend.
But Factually speaking, we have books etc (bible) written in an age where we did not have as much knowledge as we do now, these days we have a vast knowledge in science, the universe etc etc...
From what i usually see (and i admit i have not read every post in this thread) religious people refuse to acknowledge the views of people who do not believe, I mean they will pretend the acknowledge, but then go back to trying to get you to be religious lol...
I think the fact of the matter is, the idea of religion is great, but in reality unlikely.
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dude you take me for an ignorant blind follower
As a muslim there is no room for doubt
I don't doubt that Islam is the true religion. NOT because I was taught about Islam from an early age. I have a close American muslim friend who was a christian missionary and did a lot of service for his church since he was in elementary. He has just recently reverted to Islam last year. He also has no doubt that Islam is the Truth. He also studied a lot of hinduism, Judaism and also has some strong atheist friends but is still convinced Islam is the truth.
Not all strong believers are born into their religion
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dan, i understand your belief and i respect that you love a peace loving society.
Just an advice, sometimes it's better to be knowledgeable than ignorant. You hope there's a heaven but you don't want to find out if there's a heaven because you think there probably isn't. Why not try and search if there truly is a heaven. Try reading on Islam. If you still don't believe then that's up to you. Just saying.
thats the whole point, u cant find out by reading books and listening to old dudes if theres heaven! u will only find out once u die :)
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question : what do u call people who believe in God but not religion?
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question : what do u call people who believe in God but not religion?
sensible, i think to believe in god is fine, and also what dan says is correct, people choose to believe what is written in a book by a man alive about god, heaven etc... makes no sense
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dude you take me for an ignorant blind follower
As a muslim there is no room for doubt
I don't doubt that Islam is the true religion. NOT because I was taught about Islam from an early age. I have a close American muslim friend who was a christian missionary and did a lot of service for his church since he was in elementary. He has just recently reverted to Islam last year. He also has no doubt that Islam is the Truth. He also studied a lot of hinduism, Judaism and also has some strong atheist friends but is still convinced Islam is the truth.
Not all strong believers are born into their religion
Thats the most ridicolous generalisation i have ever heard in my entire life.
Just because it happend too your pal, doesnt prove anything.
Im quite sure theres plenty of muslims who beleive that islam isnt the answer, and plenty of islams that have converted too other religions too.
I personally beleive that man made religion out ignorance and fear, the universe as we know it is too complex, the millions of galaxys etc, its just too complicated.
I have no problem with religion tho, apart from when people like you try and force there ideas on other people like your religion is a fact, no religion is a fact, if you want too beleve that, go for it, but you cant go saying this is wrong, and this is wright, let people make there own opinion on things.
Just go get a GF and relax.
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@ DantheMan -
So what happens if you die and you find you're destiny is hell fire? :undecided:
you can't live life ignorantly. You need to have a basis for living.
@ G-man -
I was trying to point out that not all religious ppl are born into religion
I don't doubt that there are Muslims who doubt Islam but does that still make them muslim if they think Islam isn't the answer? If they think so then why do they still believe they're Muslims? You can't be a Muslim just by name or just by being born into it. In the teachings of Islam, one of the articles of faith is NOT doubting your Religion. Which makes sense. And no we don't believe Islam just because it's a religion, we have our example and proofs. Our example, the Prophet (SAW), greatest man to ever set foot on this earth. Successful on both religious level and secular level.
There are millions of converts in Islam who are a million times stronger in faith than millions of Muslims who are born into Islam.
You still think islam is all about blind belief and just bowing down to an invisible god and that economics and the other aspects of life is not from Islam, just common sense.
We have our sources and how to live life.
We are not forcing anyone. BUT, if you want to be a part of our religion and be CALLED a MUSLIM then you HAVE to follow the rules. It's like being in an army but not following the general. or the general not following the higher command. Their will be huge consequences if they don't follow the higher commander.
So if, as a Muslim, you place religion as your top priority because that what happens when you become a Muslim, then why shouldn't you follow the teachings?
It's not right to be called a Muslim and you know what's right and what's wrong in Islam but you're like meh.. I believe christianity is the answer or whatever. THEN GTFO AND GO TO CHRISTIANITY!
and for those asking why is there a corporal punishment when you become an apostate of Islam... why is there are corporal punishment for rebelling against your country?
Just saying.
Peace
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just for the record aswell so everyone knows, i am not against the idea of religion, just believe a lot of there views to be dated, at the same time religion does give a lot of good things, and i certainly wont like/dislike anyone because of it, i like to be quite open minded aswell and not focus on one religion.
on the other hand if there was a god, i doubt that if you were a good person, but were not religious would mean that you would go to hell.
tough call really, cos at the en dof the day, nobody can be sure of the correct answer, its all about belief, and different people think in different ways, which to be fair is what makes things great on here, different views, different ways of looking at things, different opinions.
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just for the record aswell so everyone knows, i am not against the idea of religion, just believe a lot of there views to be dated, at the same time religion does give a lot of good things, and i certainly wont like/dislike anyone because of it, i like to be quite open minded aswell and not focus on one religion.
on the other hand if there was a god, i doubt that if you were a good person, but were not religious would mean that you would go to hell.
tough call really, cos at the en dof the day, nobody can be sure of the correct answer, its all about belief, and different people think in different ways, which to be fair is what makes things great on here, different views, different ways of looking at things, different opinions.
Islam's point of view: Belief before action. Without intention to do a good action for the sake of Allah, the deed is useless.
As Muslims we should respect all people. We're not even allowed to curse the non-Muslims unless we are face to face on the battlefield, as in right in front of each other, each of us holding a gun etc.
Search for the truth, read on other religions too, it's really your call and your decision. Your life, not mine.
Muslims are obliged to deliver the message of Islam in order to guide people, but whether or not they believe, it's their choice. I'm just trying to do my part :grin:
seriously, I think we need the simple :) emoticon...
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From what i usually see (and i admit i have not read every post in this thread) religious people refuse to acknowledge the views of people who do not believe, I mean they will pretend the acknowledge, but then go back to trying to get you to be religious lol...
In general, it's the same for atheists aswell.
question : what do u call people who believe in God but not religion?
sensible, i think to believe in god is fine, and also what dan says is correct, people choose to believe what is written in a book by a man alive about god, heaven etc... makes no sense
lol, don't be a smartass. :grin:
It's called being a theist, tbc.
Here's some more 'FYI' stuff. From what I've been told, it's part of some religions to try to convert as many people to their religion. It's like don't steal, don't kill...try to convince people to follow your religion.
Another thing, why is it that people assume that if they're wrong about being an atheist and that there is a God, that there probably is a heaven and hell?
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Royal, There is no such thing as proof.
Can i bring you back to when that baby in russia had "Tatoos/Birthmarks" from Allah.
The first thing you did was post on the forum saying how much this proved Islam was true and that its a warning from Allah.
It was child abuse, and you embarrased yourself there, just like you are now.
So how do you expect me to take your opinion on faith as fact? When that so called "Fact" was so far of true.
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From what i usually see (and i admit i have not read every post in this thread) religious people refuse to acknowledge the views of people who do not believe, I mean they will pretend the acknowledge, but then go back to trying to get you to be religious lol...
In general, it's the same for atheists aswell.
question : what do u call people who believe in God but not religion?
sensible, i think to believe in god is fine, and also what dan says is correct, people choose to believe what is written in a book by a man alive about god, heaven etc... makes no sense
lol, don't be a smartass. :grin:
It's called being a theist, tbc.
Here's some more 'FYI' stuff. From what I've been told, it's part of some religions to try to convert as many people to their religion. It's like don't steal, don't kill...try to convince people to follow your religion.
Another thing, why is it that people assume that if they're wrong about being an atheist and that there is a God, that there probably is a heaven and hell?
good question..interesting..
thanks for the answer, so God believing are theists and those who believe in religion are...non secular?
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Royal, There is no such thing as proof.
Can i bring you back to when that baby in russia had "Tatoos/Birthmarks" from Allah.
The first thing you did was post on the forum saying how much this proved Islam was true and that its a warning from Allah.
It was child abuse, and you embarrased yourself there, just like you are now.
So how do you expect me to take your opinion on faith as fact? When that so called "Fact" was so far of true.
yeah that thread was legendary. it was an embarrassment :embarrassed:
I was quick to talk out of my arse then.
how am I embarrassing myself now? :017:
what do you mean by there is no such thing as proof?
the Qur'an is proof that Muhammad was not a liar and it is proof that there must be something NOT human that has spoken such beautiful words.
Also, how did the universe come into existence? If according to that scientist Stephen hawkings or whatever says it's by laws of physics, what caused the laws of physics cause the existence of the universe. and what caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause of the laws of physics causing the universe to exist?
Where are your proofs that God doesn't exist cause you Atheists seem to be 100% sure about everything.
I'll continue this discussion later.
Peace
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Royal, There is no such thing as proof.
Can i bring you back to when that baby in russia had "Tatoos/Birthmarks" from Allah.
The first thing you did was post on the forum saying how much this proved Islam was true and that its a warning from Allah.
It was child abuse, and you embarrased yourself there, just like you are now.
So how do you expect me to take your opinion on faith as fact? When that so called "Fact" was so far of true.
yeah that thread was legendary. it was an embarrassment :embarrassed:
I was quick to talk out of my arse then.
how am I embarrassing myself now? :017:
what do you mean by there is no such thing as proof?
the Qur'an is proof that Muhammad was not a liar and it is proof that there must be something NOT human that has spoken such beautiful words.
Also, how did the universe come into existence? If according to that scientist Stephen hawkings or whatever says it's by laws of physics, what caused the laws of physics cause the existence of the universe. and what caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause of the laws of physics causing the universe to exist?
Where are your proofs that God doesn't exist cause you Atheists seem to be 100% sure about everything.
I'll continue this discussion later.
Peace
Good point.. but G-Kid is talking about proof in general. its hard to prove anything.
Proof is subjective too in a way. What appears right to you may not be right to another person.
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Royal, There is no such thing as proof.
Can i bring you back to when that baby in russia had "Tatoos/Birthmarks" from Allah.
The first thing you did was post on the forum saying how much this proved Islam was true and that its a warning from Allah.
It was child abuse, and you embarrased yourself there, just like you are now.
So how do you expect me to take your opinion on faith as fact? When that so called "Fact" was so far of true.
yeah that thread was legendary. it was an embarrassment :embarrassed:
I was quick to talk out of my arse then.
how am I embarrassing myself now? :017:
what do you mean by there is no such thing as proof?
the Qur'an is proof that Muhammad was not a liar and it is proof that there must be something NOT human that has spoken such beautiful words.
Also, how did the universe come into existence? If according to that scientist Stephen hawkings or whatever says it's by laws of physics, what caused the laws of physics cause the existence of the universe. and what caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause of the laws of physics causing the universe to exist?
Where are your proofs that God doesn't exist cause you Atheists seem to be 100% sure about everything.
I'll continue this discussion later.
Peace
Good point.. but G-Kid is talking about proof in general. its hard to prove anything.
Proof is subjective too in a way. What appears right to you may not be right to another person.
there is no proof that good does or does not exist
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Royal, There is no such thing as proof.
Can i bring you back to when that baby in russia had "Tatoos/Birthmarks" from Allah.
The first thing you did was post on the forum saying how much this proved Islam was true and that its a warning from Allah.
It was child abuse, and you embarrased yourself there, just like you are now.
So how do you expect me to take your opinion on faith as fact? When that so called "Fact" was so far of true.
yeah that thread was legendary. it was an embarrassment :embarrassed:
I was quick to talk out of my arse then.
how am I embarrassing myself now? :017:
what do you mean by there is no such thing as proof?
the Qur'an is proof that Muhammad was not a liar and it is proof that there must be something NOT human that has spoken such beautiful words.
Also, how did the universe come into existence? If according to that scientist Stephen hawkings or whatever says it's by laws of physics, what caused the laws of physics cause the existence of the universe. and what caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause that caused the cause of the laws of physics causing the universe to exist?
Where are your proofs that God doesn't exist cause you Atheists seem to be 100% sure about everything.
I'll continue this discussion later.
Peace
No one should need to disprove anything that has been made up, it's you that must show proof.
There's an invisible troll living under your house, disprove me?
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lol everyone believes in different things...leave it at that. there literally is no way to prove the other point of view wrong
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lol everyone believes in different things...leave it at that. there literally is no way to prove the other point of view wrong
why leave lol? the forum is for discussions.
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or we could all agree that benbow is correct
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
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no offense, but if you believe that science will prove all religions wrong then how are you a christian believer? just wondering.
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
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Whos to say im an atheist?
Im just playing devils advocate.
I beleive in the teachings of the bible, the quran etc i beleive that there are stories to be learnt from it, its a valuable way to live your life
But i personally cant respect anyone, who let Hiroshima/Nagasaki happen, Slavery happen, Whats happening in palestine happen, letting kids be born into starvation, let Josef Fritzle do what he did... I have no respect or look to this god as a superior being if he does exist
Tbh, if you look at the sheer size of the universe, you cant even comprhend how big it is, for me, theres no way a thing could have done that it doesnt make sense.
Go for religion mate, if thats what makes you happy and want to live life, im happy for you. Religion has enpowered my role models, Luther king, Ali, Mandella etc... Im not suggesting that religion is a bad thing, its a great thing, can cause such extreme things, both positive and negative.
But stop preaching, let people make there own minds up. Gday.
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if that's what you believe then fine.
but to me, yes we the universe is too big and complex and perfect to be created by a thing. But it's too perfect and complex and big to come out of no where either. We believe that what created the universe is far superior and in no way are we or anything else equal or can compare to Him.
gday gman :039:
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if that's what you believe then fine.
but to me, yes we the universe is too big and complex and perfect to be created by a thing. But it's too perfect and complex and big to come out of no where either. We believe that what created the universe is far superior and in no way are we or anything else equal or can compare to Him.
gday gman :039:
but then, wot created him?
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if that's what you believe then fine.
but to me, yes we the universe is too big and complex and perfect to be created by a thing. But it's too perfect and complex and big to come out of no where either. We believe that what created the universe is far superior and in no way are we or anything else equal or can compare to Him.
gday gman :039:
but then, wot created him?
lol, i have a feeling we should leave this to the priests :P
but for Him to be God, no one can create him ;)
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
religion is based upon faith and faith comes along the lines of feelings/emotions like love, hatred etc
can science prove or disprove those things?
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
religion is based upon faith and faith comes along the lines of feelings/emotions like love, hatred etc
can science prove or disprove those things?
but if science proves how the universe was started, how water was made, how life began then what? You named human emotions, you cant prove emotions wrong, but you can prove how everything works through science, I'm religious too, but i have my doubts.
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if that's what you believe then fine.
but to me, yes we the universe is too big and complex and perfect to be created by a thing. But it's too perfect and complex and big to come out of no where either. We believe that what created the universe is far superior and in no way are we or anything else equal or can compare to Him.
gday gman :039:
but then, wot created him?
as tbc said, for him to be "God" no one can create him. Or else there must be a far superior creator making that other creator god.
Also, all these questions were answered in the FIRST video I posted... :embarrassed:
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
religion is based upon faith and faith comes along the lines of feelings/emotions like love, hatred etc
can science prove or disprove those things?
but if science proves how the universe was started, how water was made, how life began then what? You named human emotions, you cant prove emotions wrong, but you can prove how everything works through science, I'm religious too, but i have my doubts.
those things are matter. universe comes under physics, water under chemistry, life under biology? in general all u mentioned is matter. u cannot prove how everything works through science imo. explain crying when someone dies..
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
religion is based upon faith and faith comes along the lines of feelings/emotions like love, hatred etc
can science prove or disprove those things?
but if science proves how the universe was started, how water was made, how life began then what? You named human emotions, you cant prove emotions wrong, but you can prove how everything works through science, I'm religious too, but i have my doubts.
those things are matter. universe comes under physics, water under chemistry, life under biology? in general all u mentioned is matter. u cannot prove how everything works through science imo. explain crying when someone dies..
Human emotions, christian/catholics believe in god because the idea that you go somewhere after you die is a lot less painful then imagining yourself rotting in the ground. Would you rather believe that there was an eternity of never ending happiness, or that your body will decompose in the ground and thatll be the end?
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
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I agree with Benbow, there is no proof that god does or does not exist, Royal makes a good point with what caused the cause of the cause of the laws of physics, but theres really no explanation, but that doesnt mean theres a god, i believe one day science will prove all religion wrong
stupid comment, its not the job of science to prove religion wrong, get some sense
Then who's job is it?
religion is based upon faith and faith comes along the lines of feelings/emotions like love, hatred etc
can science prove or disprove those things?
but if science proves how the universe was started, how water was made, how life began then what? You named human emotions, you cant prove emotions wrong, but you can prove how everything works through science, I'm religious too, but i have my doubts.
those things are matter. universe comes under physics, water under chemistry, life under biology? in general all u mentioned is matter. u cannot prove how everything works through science imo. explain crying when someone dies..
Human emotions, christian/catholics believe in god because the idea that you go somewhere after you die is a lot less painful then imagining yourself rotting in the ground. Would you rather believe that there was an eternity of never ending happiness, or that your body will decompose in the ground and thatll be the end?
i dont know if this is related to our last posts on science. but going to hell is probably a far more scary thought than rotting here right? and the idea of reward or punishment goes well with the human being package. we give tests all our life, school tests and life tests and so on. the idea is based on the same pattern. anyway, i just wanted to talk about science and faith earlier...
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
so according to you a friend of you can be made to die to cause a measurable amount of chemical reaction in your brain which makes you mourn?
and this can be tested in a lab? wow good man good! i dont know what to say. emotions cause chemical changes in the body BUT chemical changes dont cause emotions. if a laughing gas made u laugh or a tear gas made you cry by changing you chemical balance doesnt necessarily mean you are happy or sad right?
WOW i m beginning to realise both sides are dumb. those of who believe blindly in science and those who believe blindly in religion.
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Atheism is a placebo effect, it gives people the impression that they're very intelligent.
Theism is a placebo effect, it gives people the impression that there's hope no matter what.
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
so according to you a friend of you can be made to die to cause a measurable amount of chemical reaction in your brain which makes you mourn?
and this can be tested in a lab? wow good man good! i dont know what to say. emotions cause chemical changes in the body BUT chemical changes dont cause emotions. if a laughing gas made u laugh or a tear gas made you cry by changing you chemical balance doesnt necessarily mean you are happy or sad right?
WOW i m beginning to realise both sides are dumb. those of who believe blindly in science and those who believe blindly in religion.
We're talking about emotions not physical effects. Crying isn't an emotion.
An emotion is love, hate etc.
Falling in love is a chemical reaction in the brain.
Feeling sad or depressed is a chemical reaction.
@ Lis
Religion has very little to do with intelligence, mostly it is how you've been brought up imo. Also, some people have a slightly bigger chance to believe than others.
If children were to be brought up to believe in ghosts, ofcourse they will believe in ghosts.
I'm not religious because
1. I havn't been brought up in a religious family.
2. The bible and the whole genesis have many flaws wich makes it extremely hard for me to believe in. I don't know much about Islam though.
One of many flaws:
According to the biblical story, god created the earth and the universe in 6 days. The 7th day he used to rest and bless everything he had done.
Supposedly god spends the majority of the 6 days creating everything on earth and only spends around half of the fourth day creating the rest of the universe. As we all know, this planet is only an insignificant speck of microscopic dust in the scope of the entire known universe but god has to somehow spend nearly 90% of his creation time on it?
Also, god says "let there be light" on the first day, but according to the Genesis story, he does not create the sun until the fourth day. So where did the light come from in the first place?
Furthermore. Why does something all powerful need to rest? Especially after doing just six days of work after sitting around for an eternity doing nothing.
Only this makes the whole Genesis creation story sound pretty strange. There are also a ton of factual errors.
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
so according to you a friend of you can be made to die to cause a measurable amount of chemical reaction in your brain which makes you mourn?
and this can be tested in a lab? wow good man good! i dont know what to say. emotions cause chemical changes in the body BUT chemical changes dont cause emotions. if a laughing gas made u laugh or a tear gas made you cry by changing you chemical balance doesnt necessarily mean you are happy or sad right?
WOW i m beginning to realise both sides are dumb. those of who believe blindly in science and those who believe blindly in religion.
We're talking about emotions not physical effects. Crying isn't an emotion.
An emotion is love, hate etc.
Falling in love is a chemical reaction in the brain.
Feeling sad or depressed is a chemical reaction.
@ Lis
Religion has very little to do with intelligence, mostly it is how you've been brought up imo. Also, some people have a slightly bigger chance to believe than others.
If children were to be brought up to believe in ghosts, ofcourse they will believe in ghosts.
I'm not religious because
1. I havn't been brought up in a religious family.
2. The bible and the whole genesis have many flaws wich makes it extremely hard for me to believe in. I don't know much about Islam though.
One of many flaws:
According to the biblical story, god created the earth and the universe in 6 days. The 7th day he used to rest and bless everything he had done.
Supposedly god spends the majority of the 6 days creating everything on earth and only spends around half of the fourth day creating the rest of the universe. As we all know, this planet is only an insignificant speck of microscopic dust in the scope of the entire known universe but god has to somehow spend nearly 90% of his creation time on it?
Also, god says "let there be light" on the first day, but according to the Genesis story, he does not create the sun until the fourth day. So where did the light come from in the first place?
Furthermore. Why does something all powerful need to rest? Especially after doing just six days of work after sitting around for an eternity doing nothing.
Only this makes the whole Genesis creation story sound pretty strange. There are also a ton of factual errors.
My thought Ricke; is that those chemical/eletric reactions that 'creates' emotions are gods code for doing it.. Because many religous people belief is that God created it all and therefor that aswell.,
same it is with DNA.. I think that discovering DNA is that we are closer to Gods code for the human such as everything else DNA is in.
That you dont believe in the bible does not affect that you arent religous, you can be religous without being christan or a muslim, or being a part of any other religon, its only aobut what is inside you.
Also we have NO clue if there is another ''world''/''paradise''/''side of the time''.. therefor I think its not wrong to believe that there really is something.
Bible is a collection of stories, not a something that every christian are supposed to believe in literally that the stories are true. Ive read big parts of it and I think it tells you alot alot alot alot about what the earth and the human is about.
People always tells me: you only believe in god because you want a hope for that there is something after youve died. my answer is always: yes, what else could it be ? isnt it my right to have that hope...
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Yeah, you're right the bible shouldn't be taken literally.
Sure it might be that they are gods code, the same with dna.. but i've never read anywere were claims like that for example has carefully been studied, but sure it's possible.
Theories that argue that god doesn't exist are for example string theory.. while this theory might not be true at all we're finding out more and more about it and seems reasonable. The big bang inflation theory also seems reasonable because it has alot of different theories backing it up from quantom physics.
But this is only what I think because i've been grown up in an atheist family, so it's also a sort of "belief" I suppose.
Not having a religion but believing in god makes the most sense to me, after atheism.
Because it opens up many possibilities and doesn't have anything to do with the holy books wich have way to many contradictions in them for me to take seriously.
you have the right to believe whatever you want.. it's just me as a person, i like finding out several reasonings behind why a sort of paradise would exist to believe in it.
it is your right to have that hope because there is always a possibility that it is true until it has been proven 100%.
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Yea, I understand you Ricke!
But i just took this moment to explain for some atheists that to believe in God is not close-minded or stupid which these some atheist says.
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
I a religious person. And i dont say the world is 6000 years old neither do i believe it. Adam might have come to the earth a in 8000-10000 years back BUT homo sapiens might have been there before him just lacking the same human intelligence we see now. first human civilisations the egyptians, babylon and the greece are not older than 10000 years so i think what i m saying is right as these were the first civilisations to demonstrate proper human ways of using brains and developing on them.
I agree with Gustav on the open minded thing. We religious people are not close minded.
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@ Lis
Religion has very little to do with intelligence, mostly it is how you've been brought up imo. Also, some people have a slightly bigger chance to believe than others.
If children were to be brought up to believe in ghosts, ofcourse they will believe in ghosts.
I'm not religious because
1. I havn't been brought up in a religious family.
2. The bible and the whole genesis have many flaws wich makes it extremely hard for me to believe in. I don't know much about Islam though.
That's what I see with many atheists, they don't know much about Islam.
why won't people watch the first video I posted??? :017:
There is a lot of logic behind believing in God, not just because we feel there is a God then we should just believe...
Debate: Islam or Atheism? With Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists (Dr. Ed Buckner)
Debate: Islam or Atheism? With Hamza Andreas Tzortzis & the president of American Atheists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI9owlpOQl0#ws)
Hamza Tzortzis was not raised a Muslim, he was previously an atheist. :great:
Even if it's long just watch it...
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Dr. Zakir Naik - Does God exist? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM#)
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just believe in anything you want and respect others' beliefs and you'll be fine
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
so according to you a friend of you can be made to die to cause a measurable amount of chemical reaction in your brain which makes you mourn?
and this can be tested in a lab? wow good man good! i dont know what to say. emotions cause chemical changes in the body BUT chemical changes dont cause emotions. if a laughing gas made u laugh or a tear gas made you cry by changing you chemical balance doesnt necessarily mean you are happy or sad right?
WOW i m beginning to realise both sides are dumb. those of who believe blindly in science and those who believe blindly in religion.
@ Lis
Religion has very little to do with intelligence, mostly it is how you've been brought up imo. Also, some people have a slightly bigger chance to believe than others.
If children were to be brought up to believe in ghosts, ofcourse they will believe in ghosts.
I'm not religious because
1. I havn't been brought up in a religious family.
2. The bible and the whole genesis have many flaws wich makes it extremely hard for me to believe in. I don't know much about Islam though.
One of many flaws:
According to the biblical story, god created the earth and the universe in 6 days. The 7th day he used to rest and bless everything he had done.
Supposedly god spends the majority of the 6 days creating everything on earth and only spends around half of the fourth day creating the rest of the universe. As we all know, this planet is only an insignificant speck of microscopic dust in the scope of the entire known universe but god has to somehow spend nearly 90% of his creation time on it?
Also, god says "let there be light" on the first day, but according to the Genesis story, he does not create the sun until the fourth day. So where did the light come from in the first place?
Furthermore. Why does something all powerful need to rest? Especially after doing just six days of work after sitting around for an eternity doing nothing.
Only this makes the whole Genesis creation story sound pretty strange. There are also a ton of factual errors.
I don't remember saying anything about intelligence and religious people :S
Anyway, I can try to answer the other parts for you, when I was in school I asked many question similiar to those.
God spent all his time in the place that he loved and the rest of the galaxy don't mean much to him or something like that :P
Light was metaphorical for 'good'.
God did not need to rest, this is a teaching from God that people should rest. From what I understand, a lot of religious people believe that *sigh* 'everything happens for a reason' and that God is planning everything. So he's not resting for eternity, he's creating a life for each person.
rant/
I can't believe no one said anything about how evil is justified in most religions with the whole "the devil made me do it thing"..it's the biggest cop out I've ever heard. I was tempted by the devil. Fuck off, you're a bad person, that's why you did it, not because some cunt in red stockings and a pitch fork 'tempted' you.
/rant
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Lol. Emotions are chemical reactions in the brain, they have nothing to do with God.
And once again you have to prove your God. Just as I would have to prove that invisible troll of yours beneath your house.
Nothing should need to be disproved.
so according to you a friend of you can be made to die to cause a measurable amount of chemical reaction in your brain which makes you mourn?
and this can be tested in a lab? wow good man good! i dont know what to say. emotions cause chemical changes in the body BUT chemical changes dont cause emotions. if a laughing gas made u laugh or a tear gas made you cry by changing you chemical balance doesnt necessarily mean you are happy or sad right?
WOW i m beginning to realise both sides are dumb. those of who believe blindly in science and those who believe blindly in religion.
@ Lis
Religion has very little to do with intelligence, mostly it is how you've been brought up imo. Also, some people have a slightly bigger chance to believe than others.
If children were to be brought up to believe in ghosts, ofcourse they will believe in ghosts.
I'm not religious because
1. I havn't been brought up in a religious family.
2. The bible and the whole genesis have many flaws wich makes it extremely hard for me to believe in. I don't know much about Islam though.
One of many flaws:
According to the biblical story, god created the earth and the universe in 6 days. The 7th day he used to rest and bless everything he had done.
Supposedly god spends the majority of the 6 days creating everything on earth and only spends around half of the fourth day creating the rest of the universe. As we all know, this planet is only an insignificant speck of microscopic dust in the scope of the entire known universe but god has to somehow spend nearly 90% of his creation time on it?
Also, god says "let there be light" on the first day, but according to the Genesis story, he does not create the sun until the fourth day. So where did the light come from in the first place?
Furthermore. Why does something all powerful need to rest? Especially after doing just six days of work after sitting around for an eternity doing nothing.
Only this makes the whole Genesis creation story sound pretty strange. There are also a ton of factual errors.
I don't remember saying anything about intelligence and religious people :S
Anyway, I can try to answer the other parts for you, when I was in school I asked many question similiar to those.
God spent all his time in the place that he loved and the rest of the galaxy don't mean much to him or something like that :P
Light was metaphorical for 'good'.
God did not need to rest, this is a teaching from God that people should rest. From what I understand, a lot of religious people believe that *sigh* 'everything happens for a reason' and that God is planning everything. So he's not resting for eternity, he's creating a life for each person.
rant/
I can't believe no one said anything about how evil is justified in most religions with the whole "the devil made me do it thing"..it's the biggest cop out I've ever heard. I was tempted by the devil. Fuck off, you're a bad person, that's why you did it, not because some cunt in red stockings and a pitch fork 'tempted' you.
/rant
hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahah that phrase cracked me up so bad
thanks man
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
I a religious person. And i dont say the world is 6000 years old neither do i believe it. Adam might have come to the earth a in 8000-10000 years back BUT homo sapiens might have been there before him just lacking the same human intelligence we see now. first human civilisations the egyptians, babylon and the greece are not older than 10000 years so i think what i m saying is right as these were the first civilisations to demonstrate proper human ways of using brains and developing on them.
I agree with Gustav on the open minded thing. We religious people are not close minded.
Did you read what I said?
If someone completely shuts out another reasoning THAT is being close-minded. If I say NO god does not exist 100% I'm being close-minded because im shutting out a possibility that MIGHT be possible. I just don't think that it is possible.
If a religious person says god 100% exists and doesn't accept any other theories, that is being pretty close-minded to me.
And just for your information homo sapiens have always had the same intelligence since we evolved into them, the only difference is that we have gotten more information and knowledge.
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
I a religious person. And i dont say the world is 6000 years old neither do i believe it. Adam might have come to the earth a in 8000-10000 years back BUT homo sapiens might have been there before him just lacking the same human intelligence we see now. first human civilisations the egyptians, babylon and the greece are not older than 10000 years so i think what i m saying is right as these were the first civilisations to demonstrate proper human ways of using brains and developing on them.
I agree with Gustav on the open minded thing. We religious people are not close minded.
Did you read what I said?
If someone completely shuts out another reasoning THAT is being close-minded. If I say NO god does not exist 100% I'm being close-minded because im shutting out a possibility that MIGHT be possible. I just don't think that it is possible.
If a religious person says god 100% exists and doesn't accept any other theories, that is being pretty close-minded to me.
And just for your information homo sapiens have always had the same intelligence since we evolved into them, the only difference is that we have gotten more information and knowledge.
yes. i did. i just gave my view.
BUT if theory of evolution is to be believed. i disagree with you, intelligence is also supposed to be evolve so best genes are favoured to ensure the survival of the fittest. you cant say we had the same intelligence always, its not in agreement with Darwin's theory.
The Holy Book i believe in says when God created Adam and presented him to the angels they said : "This creature will create chaos on the land" To which God replied "i know what you don't know" We believe angels already knew something about the new creation as they knew its one characteristic(chaos) which shows pre-Adam existence of homo sapiens(remains have been found), but God had made a little change and gave him wisdom (brain) which the angels didn't know. angels don't work on freewill, they just submit.
I cannot prove this scientifically and i don't need to. i find many of the people calling themselves open-minded become close-minded when it comes to science, they think it is the only way to believe in anything.
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
I a religious person. And i dont say the world is 6000 years old neither do i believe it. Adam might have come to the earth a in 8000-10000 years back BUT homo sapiens might have been there before him just lacking the same human intelligence we see now. first human civilisations the egyptians, babylon and the greece are not older than 10000 years so i think what i m saying is right as these were the first civilisations to demonstrate proper human ways of using brains and developing on them.
I agree with Gustav on the open minded thing. We religious people are not close minded.
Did you read what I said?
If someone completely shuts out another reasoning THAT is being close-minded. If I say NO god does not exist 100% I'm being close-minded because im shutting out a possibility that MIGHT be possible. I just don't think that it is possible.
If a religious person says god 100% exists and doesn't accept any other theories, that is being pretty close-minded to me.
And just for your information homo sapiens have always had the same intelligence since we evolved into them, the only difference is that we have gotten more information and knowledge.
lol but that's how religion works. If you believe in the God you're worshiping, you must believe 100%. There are no inbetweens.
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is anyone reading my posts or watching the videos i posted? i want to hear the answer of atheists on this forum.
if no one replies, every week i'll post a HUGE post containing all the videos i posted on this forum just to make sure you watch them... :great:
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LIS
you talked about the devil tempting ppl
i want to hear your side of the story on why adam and eve were cast out of the heavens. i'm just curious.
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Yeah you're right, it's deffinetly not stupid to believe in god and would be very arrogant to say so.
But if someone completely says that basically nothing in science is correct and that the earth is 6000 years old i think that that is quite close-minded for shutting out the possibility that it might've been the laws of physics alone that created the big bang and the universe.
But it is possible that God created the big bang etc etc :). That's more believable than someone saying that the earth is 6000 years old and evolution isn't true at all.
That's just what I think.
I a religious person. And i dont say the world is 6000 years old neither do i believe it. Adam might have come to the earth a in 8000-10000 years back BUT homo sapiens might have been there before him just lacking the same human intelligence we see now. first human civilisations the egyptians, babylon and the greece are not older than 10000 years so i think what i m saying is right as these were the first civilisations to demonstrate proper human ways of using brains and developing on them.
I agree with Gustav on the open minded thing. We religious people are not close minded.
Did you read what I said?
If someone completely shuts out another reasoning THAT is being close-minded. If I say NO god does not exist 100% I'm being close-minded because im shutting out a possibility that MIGHT be possible. I just don't think that it is possible.
If a religious person says god 100% exists and doesn't accept any other theories, that is being pretty close-minded to me.
And just for your information homo sapiens have always had the same intelligence since we evolved into them, the only difference is that we have gotten more information and knowledge.
lol but that's how religion works. If you believe in the God you're worshiping, you must believe 100%. There are no inbetweens.
No, many of them still say that "I might be wrong even though there's a 99% chance that i'm right" at least they leave a possibility of being wrong or they leave themselves open to at least a few scientific facts.
Royal i'm sorry but i really don't have the time to watch all of those videos. I've discussed religion with so many people i've met and the discussion leads no were especially when discussing on a forum because of missunderstandings.
You have many valid points i'm sure, but it's impossible to prove the other wrong for now.
And tbc.. I didn't say that intelligence has not evolved.
I said it has not evolved since we became homo sapiens, I never said that our intelligence has always been the same as humans.
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well when you have time, try to watch them :victory:
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No, many of them still say that "I might be wrong even though there's a 99% chance that i'm right" at least they leave a possibility of being wrong or they leave themselves open to at least a few scientific facts.
I highly doubt that part. That's called having little faith, that's just how religion works. You're thinking way too logical about this.
LIS
you talked about the devil tempting ppl
i want to hear your side of the story on why adam and eve were cast out of the heavens. i'm just curious.
lol my opinion? Okay. That story makes no sense to me and I assume a lot of it was metaphorical. 'Do what you're told or suffer the conciquences' is what I think it was trying to convey.
Anyway, I don't believe that the devil/satan exists. I think that the concept was made to make people have hope in themselves that they aren't having bad thoughts and that they are being 'tricked' by satan. Which is a good teaching I think. Imagine if you were a person that could only think about killing other people. Then you think, okay, I can fix these bad thoughts, I just have to reject satan. Wah-la, sane person after praying/confessing etc
I was wondering, does the Quaran have stories that are in the Bible, like the Adam and Eve one you said?
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yes, but i don't know about the bible's version
if you don't believe in the stories in your books, has your jesus been telling false tales? how can he be God if the bible is supposed to be the word of god?
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1.Jesus doesn't tell the stories, most of the stories are from others people.
2.I'm not Christian. I was just giving you my interpretation of the story, I'm sure a devoted Christian would have a different point of view.
Does the Quaran have the story about Noah and the flooding? Does it have more stories or direct teachings?
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i thought you were a christian :017:
what are you if you're not a christian?
it has stories, but it also has scientific facts which none before that could have known about. it's mostly direct teachings and warnings etc... like while telling the story Allah turns to the reader and teaches him something, not just stories. you should try and read on it. also, watch the videos i posted... :great:
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is anyone reading my posts or watching the videos i posted? i want to hear the answer of atheists on this forum.
Let's clear one thing up... not everyone that questions you in this thread is an atheists. Matter of fact, most people here are somewhat religious, just not as much as you. :great:
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i thought you were a christian :017:
what are you if you're not a christian?
it has stories, but it also has scientific facts which none before that could have known about. it's mostly direct teachings and warnings etc... like while telling the story Allah turns to the reader and teaches him something, not just stories. you should try and read on it. also, watch the videos i posted... :great:
Agnostice theist.
Hmm that's cool. I remember hearing that in Islam, instead of turn the other cheek[like the bible teaches], it's eye for an eye. Isn't that somewhat vengeful behaviour? I think this is quite a bad thing to teach kids that you shouldn't forgive and forget. Assuming that what I've heard was true.
I can't watch them, I have very limited bandwidth allowance, and no offence but I'd much rather save it for freestyle videos ;)
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The repayment of a bad action is one equivalent to it. But if someone pardons and puts things right, his reward is with Allah. Certainly He does not love wrongdoers. (Surat Ash-Shura, 40)
those who give in times of both ease and hardship, those who control their rage and pardon other people – Allah loves the good-doers – (Surat Al ‘Imran, 134)
But if someone is steadfast and forgives,that is the most resolute course to follow. (Surat Ash-Shura, 43)
Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that a man said to the Prophet (saws), “Advise me.” He said, “Do not become angry.” The man repeated his request several times, and each time the Prophet (saws) told him, “Do not become angry.”(Reported by al-Bukhari, Fath al-Baaree, 10/456)
The Messenger of Allah (saws) said: “The strong man is not the one who can overpower others (in wrestling); rather, the strong man is the one who controls himself when he gets angry.” (Reported by Ahmad, 2/236; the hadeeth is agreed upon)
The righteous (al-muttaqoon) are those praised by Allah in the Qur'an and by His Messenger (saws). Paradise as wide as heaven and earth has been prepared for them. One of their characteristics is that they (interpretation of the meaning) “spend (in Allah's Cause) in prosperity and in adversity, [they] repress anger, and [they] pardon men; verily, Allah loves al-muhsinoon (the good-doers).” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:134]
These are the ones whose good character and beautiful attributes and deeds Allaah has mentioned, and whom people admire and want to emulate. One of their characteristics is that (interpretation of the meaning) “. . . when they are angry, they forgive.” [al-Shooraa 42:47]
suit yourself, if you think fs is more important than your inner self then it's up to you.
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i thought you were a christian :017:
what are you if you're not a christian?
it has stories, but it also has scientific facts which none before that could have known about. it's mostly direct teachings and warnings etc... like while telling the story Allah turns to the reader and teaches him something, not just stories. you should try and read on it. also, watch the videos i posted... :great:
Agnostice theist.
Hmm that's cool. I remember hearing that in Islam, instead of turn the other cheek[like the bible teaches], it's eye for an eye. Isn't that somewhat vengeful behaviour? I think this is quite a bad thing to teach kids that you shouldn't forgive and forget. Assuming that what I've heard was true.
I can't watch them, I have very limited bandwidth allowance, and no offence but I'd much rather save it for freestyle videos ;)
In the Quran, the stories are there from Adam , Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, Job etc, many are mentioned. Stories are similar but all of these are presented more modestly.
About the eye for an eye thing. When the companion of the Prophet called Ali was assassinated, he was struck by a sword, he was a ruler and before dying he ordered that the murderer should be struck with the same amount of force in the same manner, if he survives they should let him go. In a quote from the Prophet it says something like"It is better to forgive but not forbidden to give exact amount in return( not more)". Honestly tell me if someone randomly slaps you on the street what would u do?
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i thought you were a christian :017:
what are you if you're not a christian?
it has stories, but it also has scientific facts which none before that could have known about. it's mostly direct teachings and warnings etc... like while telling the story Allah turns to the reader and teaches him something, not just stories. you should try and read on it. also, watch the videos i posted... :great:
Agnostice theist.
Hmm that's cool. I remember hearing that in Islam, instead of turn the other cheek[like the bible teaches], it's eye for an eye. Isn't that somewhat vengeful behaviour? I think this is quite a bad thing to teach kids that you shouldn't forgive and forget. Assuming that what I've heard was true.
I can't watch them, I have very limited bandwidth allowance, and no offence but I'd much rather save it for freestyle videos ;)
In the Quran, the stories are there from Adam , Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, Job etc, many are mentioned. Stories are similar but all of these are presented more modestly.
About the eye for an eye thing. When the companion of the Prophet called Ali was assassinated, he was struck by a sword, he was a ruler and before dying he ordered that the murderer should be struck with the same amount of force in the same manner, if he survives they should let him go. In a quote from the Prophet it says something like"It is better to forgive but not forbidden to give exact amount in return( not more)". Honestly tell me if someone randomly slaps you on the street what would u do?
Turn the other cheek :grin:
Na, I would press charges. But that's not what I meant by that.
What if your good friend insults you in some way? Do you let it go or do you insult him back, maybe hold a grudge?
suit yourself, if you think fs is more important than your inner self then it's up to you.
What are you talking about?
I don't feel the need to learn the Islamic teachings and I already believe that some form of God exists. And you've answerd my questions. Why would I need to watch the videos you're posting?
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i thought you were a christian :017:
what are you if you're not a christian?
it has stories, but it also has scientific facts which none before that could have known about. it's mostly direct teachings and warnings etc... like while telling the story Allah turns to the reader and teaches him something, not just stories. you should try and read on it. also, watch the videos i posted... :great:
Agnostice theist.
Hmm that's cool. I remember hearing that in Islam, instead of turn the other cheek[like the bible teaches], it's eye for an eye. Isn't that somewhat vengeful behaviour? I think this is quite a bad thing to teach kids that you shouldn't forgive and forget. Assuming that what I've heard was true.
I can't watch them, I have very limited bandwidth allowance, and no offence but I'd much rather save it for freestyle videos ;)
In the Quran, the stories are there from Adam , Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, Job etc, many are mentioned. Stories are similar but all of these are presented more modestly.
About the eye for an eye thing. When the companion of the Prophet called Ali was assassinated, he was struck by a sword, he was a ruler and before dying he ordered that the murderer should be struck with the same amount of force in the same manner, if he survives they should let him go. In a quote from the Prophet it says something like"It is better to forgive but not forbidden to give exact amount in return( not more)". Honestly tell me if someone randomly slaps you on the street what would u do?
Turn the other cheek :grin:
Na, I would press charges. But that's not what I meant by that.
What if your good friend insults you in some way? Do you let it go or do you insult him back, maybe hold a grudge?
Good answer :) yea ideally the matter is taken to an islamic court. where u can decide to slap him back or forgive, its your choice. i want to say this is applied only to physical harm and not to insults and bad language. have a good day haha. bad example sorry i never wish you to be slapped :)
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Slap him back or forgive? I'd rather take his money :grin:
I just read this from a user on youtube..it blew my mind.
"there are many muslim families that have pictures of jesus and st. mary.I am muslim and i have many pictures of jesus and st. mary at home.
Muslims also believe in jesus and st. mary."
...Explain!
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lol who is that?
we're not even allowed to put up pictures of human beings or other living creatures on our walls, let alone pictures of jesus and st. mary :lol_hitting:
yes we believe in Jesus (known in arabic as Eesa) and Mary (known in arabic as Maryam)
but not as the christians do. Jesus (peace be upon him) was a prophet and Maryam was his mother.
we don't call anyone saint.
As I said before, there are a lot of ignorant muslims around the world. There are much more ignorant muslims out there than people who know about their own religion, Islam.
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lol it was some chick on youtube. Arabchick or something like that.
I had a feeling that it was bullshit..
we're not even allowed to put up pictures of human beings or other living creatures on our walls
Not even family photos?
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Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam. Born without a biological father as a miracle from God. He could turn dead people alive. such things made people think of him as God later. Mary his mother is considered one of the 4 greatest women.
@Royal : do u follow any particular sect? u sound hardcore lol
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@LIS
yes, not even family photos. there are many reasons for that, I'll try to look into it and answer later :)
@tbc
I try to follow the sect of "What Allah and His Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said" sect. :great:
I try to follow the Qur'an, the Sunnah, and the rightly guided caliphs and the followers of the rightly guided companions.
I hope I'm on the right path/sect, only Allah can judge me and the other ppl of other sects.
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um royal you are allowed to put up family photos!!!!!
there is absouloutly nothing wrong with that
you just cant put up photos or pictures of prophets, this is because it might lead to worshipping the photo's like some people do instead of actually worshipping god.
and about the eye for and eye thing
its common sense. if someone injured you in some INTENTIONALLY you are allowed to do the same to them, BUT forgivness is better for you.
and about turn the other cheek, i dont believe in that and i have not met a man in my life that believes in that. if some cocky kid comes up to you and starts bullying you, you WILL hit them back, and you do have a right to do that
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um royal you are allowed to put up family photos!!!!!
there is absouloutly nothing wrong with that
you just cant put up photos or pictures of prophets, this is because it might lead to worshipping the photo's like some people do instead of actually worshipping god.
the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or images.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
The hadeeth of Aisha (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) returned from a journey and I had covered an alcove with a blanket on which there were images. When the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saw it, he tore it down and said, ‘The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be those who imitate the creation of Allah.’” (Bukhari and Muslim)
The hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Jibreel came to me and said: ‘I came to you yesterday and nothing prevented me from entering except that there was a statue by your door, and there was a curtain in your house with images on it, and there was a dog in the house. So tell someone to cut the head off the statue by your door, so it will look like a tree; tell someone to cut up the curtain and make it into floor-cushions that will be stepped on; and tell someone to put the dog outside.’” So the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did that. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad).
Sa’eed ibn Abi’l-Hasan said: I was with Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) when a man came to him and said, O Abu ‘Abbaas, I am a man who lives by what his hands make, and I make these images. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: I will only tell you what I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say. I heard him say: “Whoever makes an image, Allaah will punish him until he breathes life into it, and he will never be able to do that.” The man became very upset and his face turned pale, so [Ibn ‘Abbaas] said to him, Woe to you! If you insist on making images, then make images of these trees and everything that does not have a soul. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2112; Muslim, 2110)
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:017:
interesting
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:017:
interesting
I guess you're going to have to take down all your family pics :grin:
I haven't seen a post from you in a while. Welcome back.
Regarding the 'turn the other cheek' thing. It's not meant to apply to random people that attack you, it's meant to apply to your friends/family etc
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:017:
interesting
I guess you're going to have to take down all your family pics :grin:
I haven't seen a post from you in a while. Welcome back.
Regarding the 'turn the other cheek' thing. It's not meant to apply to random people that attack you, it's meant to apply to your friends/family etc
haha looks like i have too
its good to forgive your friends and family if they wrong you, its even better, but turn the other cheek nah sorry not working for me
but i hope you still understand that you have the right to do what they done to you even if it is friends and family
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um royal you are allowed to put up family photos!!!!!
there is absouloutly nothing wrong with that
you just cant put up photos or pictures of prophets, this is because it might lead to worshipping the photo's like some people do instead of actually worshipping god.
the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog or images.” (Bukhari and Muslim)
The hadeeth of Aisha (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) returned from a journey and I had covered an alcove with a blanket on which there were images. When the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) saw it, he tore it down and said, ‘The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be those who imitate the creation of Allah.’” (Bukhari and Muslim)
The hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Jibreel came to me and said: ‘I came to you yesterday and nothing prevented me from entering except that there was a statue by your door, and there was a curtain in your house with images on it, and there was a dog in the house. So tell someone to cut the head off the statue by your door, so it will look like a tree; tell someone to cut up the curtain and make it into floor-cushions that will be stepped on; and tell someone to put the dog outside.’” So the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did that. (Narrated by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad).
Sa’eed ibn Abi’l-Hasan said: I was with Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) when a man came to him and said, O Abu ‘Abbaas, I am a man who lives by what his hands make, and I make these images. Ibn ‘Abbaas said: I will only tell you what I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say. I heard him say: “Whoever makes an image, Allaah will punish him until he breathes life into it, and he will never be able to do that.” The man became very upset and his face turned pale, so [Ibn ‘Abbaas] said to him, Woe to you! If you insist on making images, then make images of these trees and everything that does not have a soul. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2112; Muslim, 2110)
never believed in Sahih Bukhari/Muslim or the books you narrated from, I am a muslim too and its perfectly good to put up pics in my faith :)
In this way, you cant have a video of yourself on the internet?
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For whom prophet are you talking royal?
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@ tbc: videos are different. you can take pictures of human beings but not to hang them up, keep them as your pc's desktop wallpaper etc... they should not be kept up where you regularly see them. that is the view of the scholars. that's why videos are different.
why don't you believe in Bukhari and muslim? According to the majority of the scholars the Sahih Bukhari is the most authentic book in Islam after the Qur'an. Next in line is Sahih Muslim. These are authentic traditions, sayings, actions etc.. of the Prophet and his Companions.
In the Qur'an
Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).
Say: “Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance.(24: 54).
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, Allâh shall admit him in the Gardens underneath which rivers flow. (4:13)
And whoever obeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has won a great success. (33:71)
And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought." [Qur’aan 16:44]
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam)) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment." [Qur’aan 59:7]
@ 2zef: Prophet Muhammad
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@ tbc: videos are different. you can take pictures of human beings but not to hang them up, keep them as your pc's desktop wallpaper etc... they should not be kept up where you regularly see them. that is the view of the scholars. that's why videos are different.
why don't you believe in Bukhari and muslim? According to the majority of the scholars the Sahih Bukhari is the most authentic book in Islam after the Qur'an. Next in line is Sahih Muslim. These are authentic traditions, sayings, actions etc.. of the Prophet and his Companions.
shia..
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lol wut? shia? what.. you think i'm shia??? :lol_hitting:
if i was a shia i wouldn't quote a hadeeth narrated by aisha, now would I? lol. shias hate many of the companions of the prophet and believe that Ali (RA) was supposed to be chosen as the Prophet but Angel Jibreel made a mistake. :embarrassed: Astaghfirullah...
they use fabricated ahadeeth to prove their opinions. They have their own hadeeth compilers etc...
Not trying to be rude but it seems to me you're not very knowledgeable about sects in Islam.
What would you call yourself then?
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lol wut? shia? what.. you think i'm shia??? :lol_hitting:
if i was a shia i wouldn't quote a hadeeth narrated by aisha, now would I? lol. shias hate many of the companions of the prophet and believe that Ali (RA) was supposed to be chosen as the Prophet but Angel Jibreel made a mistake. :embarrassed: Astaghfirullah...
they use fabricated ahadeeth to prove their opinions. They have their own hadeeth compilers etc...
Not trying to be rude but it seems to me you're not very knowledgeable about sects in Islam.
What would you call yourself then?
lol i am a shia. and we dont believe those things, i want the thread to stay a general religion thread.
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
its like the electric chair, it keeps some peace on the street :)
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
Well, if we believe in a day of judgement and there is no punishment for those who disobeyed/disbelieved then... why the hell should we pray and ask for forgiveness and pray for paradise....?
Imagine a man has two slaves. One obeys, the other disobeys orders totally. What will be the response of the "master" to the one who disobeyed? "I'm a peaceful man, keep disobeying me. It's okay."
:great:
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
this is obviously hell and you cant expect good thing to happen in hell do you now?
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sarcasm alert
obviously every religion that has a day of judgement treats disbelievers as equals... they also go to heaven and as believers we just waste our time and should have just "lived life to the fullest" as a disbeliever would do because all religions are correct whether they contradict within themselves or not... :You_Rock_Emoticon:
I really don't get the mentality of other people. do they expect hell to be a pit where there are no trees or beautiful plants and that's it? Or do they expect that whether you believe in a certain religion is true or not that you'll enter paradise all the same? What's the use of believing then?
I've been reading all these comments quoting how hell would be like in the Hereafter. If you don't want to go there why don't you try to go to heaven instead?
"Oh damn... the punishment in that religion is too harsh. I'll follow another religion whether true or not that doesn't have a hell that's as scary as that. Disbelievers must be shown kindness in the hereafter." That already shows how NOT serious you are about religion lol.
:017:
When you enter religion you must believe wholeheartedly. You cannot just leave it. As a Muslim, you have to aim for the best reward and without punishment in the hellfire.
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
this is obviously hell and you cant expect good thing to happen in hell do you now?
Reguardless, there's nothing peaceful about it, is there?
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it's a warning to disbelievers about what will happen to them in the hereafter... Prophet Muhammad came to us as a warner. Should he warn us about paradise? :039:
obviously hell will not be peaceful.
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Straight off facebook:
Danny XEazyboyx Corr A promiss to every1 now if antix in town becomes a mosk i will burn it to the ground
Hates:
People who where turbins and there jarmaz in public
Why are people like this?
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
This is not promoting violence my friend, this is merely showing the consequences of ones actions.
Don't be a hypocrite, i'm sure if you believe in the after life, you know theres some form of aftermath to disobidence to God.
If your going to be ignorant about this then i find you funny :)
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it's a warning to disbelievers about what will happen to them in the hereafter... Prophet Muhammad came to us as a warner. Should he warn us about paradise? :039:
obviously hell will not be peaceful.
it also means that people of other confessions are doomed - since they disbelieve in your god
btw - how come are you muslim? if you live on philipinnes - where most people are catholic as a result of spanish rule - just asking - take it easy
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Because I try to follow the truth, and I believe the Truth is found in Islam. It really doesn't matter where you live or where you're from, you can be a Muslim. It has nothing to do with race.
and also I was born in Saudi Arabia and lived there for 16 years :grin:
you can find a lot of Muslims here in Philippines too, but yeah, majority are catholics
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
This is not promoting violence my friend, this is merely showing the consequences of ones actions.
Don't be a hypocrite, i'm sure if you believe in the after life, you know theres some form of aftermath to disobidence to God.
If your going to be ignorant about this then i find you funny :)
I said it was the religion of peace not that it promotes violence ;)
Is it necessary to put all that detail? It could have said something like 'To those that disbelieve will recieve immense punishment'.
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"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."
Quran: 22-19-22
Religion of peace.
Just found this. I found it a bit funny.
This is not promoting violence my friend, this is merely showing the consequences of ones actions.
Don't be a hypocrite, i'm sure if you believe in the after life, you know theres some form of aftermath to disobidence to God.
If your going to be ignorant about this then i find you funny :)
I said it was the religion of peace not that it promotes violence ;)
Is it necessary to put all that detail? It could have said something like 'To those that disbelieve will recieve immense punishment'.
without the detail, ppl will overlook it and think that it might not be that bad. then on the day of judgement, when they will be punished as described, they would be like:
:wtf: :sign0065: :undecided: give me another chance to do it over again!
that's why the Prophet Muhammad was sent as a mercy to mankind, bringer of glad tidings to those who believe, and a warner to those who don't.
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But the word 'immense' should give you the general idea that it will be very bad...
If you overlook it, don't they deserve the punishment for ignoring the warning?
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it's not just warning the non-muslims
warning the muslims who hardly act upon Islam
and anyways, is there a problem if it's written in the Qur'an? I mean if that's where non-believers are going then what's wrong if you describe it? that should serve as clearer warning that if you don't believe you know what punishment awaits you. It's making sure ppl will be horrified of Allah's punishment.
It's kinda like when a teacher says, "If you misbehave you will be expelled." It's scarier than, "If you misbehave you will receive immense punishment." They won't really get what's really scary if you don't know how you'll punish him.
I remember a comment in this forum saying that heaven will be boring if there's no work, it's better hell, at least you get something new and have more entertainment... or somewhere along those lines.
That just shows you there are ppl in this world who think life and hereafter is just a complete joke.
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it's not just warning the non-muslims
warning the muslims who hardly act upon Islam
and anyways, is there a problem if it's written in the Qur'an? I mean if that's where non-believers are going then what's wrong if you describe it? that should serve as clearer warning that if you don't believe you know what punishment awaits you. It's making sure ppl will be horrified of Allah's punishment.
It's kinda like when a teacher says, "If you misbehave you will be expelled." It's scarier than, "If you misbehave you will receive immense punishment." They won't really get what's really scary if you don't know how you'll punish him.
I remember a comment in this forum saying that heaven will be boring if there's no work, it's better hell, at least you get something new and have more entertainment... or somewhere along those lines.
That just shows you there are ppl in this world who think life and hereafter is just a complete joke.
To be honest, I think the latter sounds much more scary.
Let's look at another aspect. Why is fear necessary? I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in fear that I'll be torchured because I'm not allowed to believe in anything other than what a book/messenger/God etc tells me to.
Another question. In the Christian Orthodox belief(as far as I am aware of), anyone can enter paradise because they are judged on their conditions.(example:Growing up in a country where there is no money for religious teaching's. That person might never have the chance to read a holy book, therefore never going to go to paradise/heaven. But in Christian Orthodox beleif, that person can)
Does the Qur'an specify about anything like that?
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The oldest known religion is about 40000 years old.
The modern man is about 150000-200000 years old.
How could God in any possible religion judge these people and send them to hell when they didn't even have a chance to prove themselves?
It's quite unfair.
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it's not just warning the non-muslims
warning the muslims who hardly act upon Islam
and anyways, is there a problem if it's written in the Qur'an? I mean if that's where non-believers are going then what's wrong if you describe it? that should serve as clearer warning that if you don't believe you know what punishment awaits you. It's making sure ppl will be horrified of Allah's punishment.
It's kinda like when a teacher says, "If you misbehave you will be expelled." It's scarier than, "If you misbehave you will receive immense punishment." They won't really get what's really scary if you don't know how you'll punish him.
I remember a comment in this forum saying that heaven will be boring if there's no work, it's better hell, at least you get something new and have more entertainment... or somewhere along those lines.
That just shows you there are ppl in this world who think life and hereafter is just a complete joke.
To be honest, I think the latter sounds much more scary.
Let's look at another aspect. Why is fear necessary? I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in fear that I'll be torchured because I'm not allowed to believe in anything other than what a book/messenger/God etc tells me to.
Another question. In the Christian Orthodox belief(as far as I am aware of), anyone can enter paradise because they are judged on their conditions.(example:Growing up in a country where there is no money for religious teaching's. That person might never have the chance to read a holy book, therefore never going to go to paradise/heaven. But in Christian Orthodox beleif, that person can)
Does the Qur'an specify about anything like that?
Well then, it's seems you prefer being expelled right after you do something. IMO, if I know how extreme the punishment will be I will, as much as possible, try to avoid that.
it's not only about living in fear. it's quite a mix of:
love for Allah, coz as a Muslim you believe that He sustained and cherishes believers and gave a us guidance (the Qur'an and Muhammad SAW).
hope for Allah's reward (i.e. Heaven and the chance to meet Him)
and fear of Allah's punishment (i.e. Hell)
Yes, we have that belief too. But he will not be sent straight to Heaven. Allah knows what will happen, but to those who did not get a chance to read about Islam, they will be raised up in the Day of Judgement and judged on the spot whether they shall believe or not. I don't know much on this subject though so I don't know how it will be, but everyone will be judged as fairly as possible.
The oldest known religion is about 40000 years old.
The modern man is about 150000-200000 years old.
How could God in any possible religion judge these people and send them to hell when they didn't even have a chance to prove themselves?
It's quite unfair.
that's the thing I keep hearing, that Islam is a new religion and Muhammad (S.A.W.) was the one who created it.
We believe, as we are what you might call "creationists, that Adam, the first man, was created and was a Muslim. Muslim means one who peacefully, willingly, and wholly submits himself/herself to Allah. Before Allah chose Islam as Allah said in the Quran,
"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (5:3),
there was something called Tawheed, meaning Oneness of God (i.e. Allah). You worship one God that has no partners.
And after Adam, there were other Prophets and Messengers sent to different peoples.
"We did aforetime send messengers before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee, and some whose story We have not related to thee. It was not (possible) for any messenger to bring a sign except by the leave of Allah: but when the Command of Allah issued, the matter was decided in truth and justice, and there perished, there and then those who stood on Falsehoods."
—Qur'an, sura 40 (Ghafir), ayah 78
"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a messenger with (the command), 'Serve God and eschew evil'""
(16:36)
and after all those Messengers and Prophets, Muhammad (SAW) was sent as a Seal of the Prophets or the Last Prophet to Mankind and all things that exists, and with him, Allah chose Islam as the final religion or way of life.
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Don't bother Freak these people will keep coming u with pointless questions till u drop.
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I enjoy discussing about religion. hopefully something I say will convince them to read more about Islam. My own little da'wah :grin:
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Royal, i think you should have given this the title islam thread rather than religion thread when u started the topic.
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well if anyone wants to discuss other religions, fine by me
Islam seems to be of the most, if not the most, talked about religion nowadays with all the terrorism and shizzle happening recently sooo...
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I'd like to know about judaism, hinduism and other religions, but I don't see anyone with knowledge on other religions so I haven't botherd to ask.
Thanks for answering, RF. On the punishment thing...I think the not knowing is much harder to deal with. If I told you I was going to punch you at noon tomorrow, you'll be able to brace yourself at the exact time. But if I didn't specify a time, you'll have to be on guard 24/7. Never underestimate the fear of not knowing.
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I'd like to know about judaism, hinduism and other religions, but I don't see anyone with knowledge on other religions so I haven't botherd to ask.
Thanks for answering, RF. On the punishment thing...I think the not knowing is much harder to deal with. If I told you I was going to punch you at noon tomorrow, you'll be able to brace yourself at the exact time. But if I didn't specify a time, you'll have to be on guard 24/7. Never underestimate the fear of not knowing.
you're talking about time now. We don't know when we will die, so as a Muslim you must ALWAYS be prepared for the Hereafter.
Another example of fear while knowing how you will be punished: If I say if you will commit murder and you have eyes watching you every moment, everywhere, you will be executed by beheading outright, wouldn't that instill fear of committing murder?
Maybe you have a different opinion, but knowing how you will be punished and giving the detail makes me have more fear.
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No, no! Time was just part of the example of not knowing when (for that example).
Doesn't matter, carry on.
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Because I try to follow the truth, and I believe the Truth is found in Islam. It really doesn't matter where you live or where you're from, you can be a Muslim. It has nothing to do with race.
and also I was born in Saudi Arabia and lived there for 16 years :grin:
you can find a lot of Muslims here in Philippines too, but yeah, majority are catholics
lol so u believe that islam is the only right religion? now thats the sort of bullshit i hate...how do u know islam is the "truth"? What is the truth anyways, if you follow it you must know what it is right?
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ooh and one more thing i don't get, why is god GOD if he is only there to punish people? For example, as far as I understand, Royal is following islam because he doesn't want to go through the punishment? Isn't that the main reason? Pardon me if I'm wrong, but all the stuff you say about "Love for Allah" and everything, what is the point of it if you know that he puts people through immense punishment? Sorry if I offended you Royal but that's is what I understood from this, not trying to offend anyone there.
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@ Sam
Look at my other posts in this thread, you will find many reasons why at least I believe Islam is the only true religion to be followed
Allah is not god just to punish ppl... He is the Creator, Sustainer, the Most Forgiving, Most Merciful, the only One deserving of worship. This world was created as a chance and a test to see who the rightful heirs of Heaven are. Those who follow in Satan's steps will follow him. Those who shun all illegal desires and sacrifice themselves to the only God, will enter Paradise
and no, I'm not following Islam only coz I fear Allah's punishment. I love Allah because He created me as a human with a choice to make my own path, not as a sheep who is alive to only graze on grass. I love Allah because He gave me a chance to enter Heaven. I love Allah because He created the Heavens and the Earth. I love Allah coz I was created as a healthy human being. I love Allah for guiding me to the True way of Life that is beneficial for all mankind, because he sent Muhammad as a guidance and mercy to mankind.
When someone insults another's mother, that person would get furious. But when someone insults the One who created his mother and fed his mother and brought him to life, then they would be a million times more furious
saying that God has equals is a huge insult to Allah. Allah is not only God of Muslims, but of everything that exists.
Call me anything, but I'm not a blind follower. I'm what my signature says. :040:
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@ Royal
I understand the rest, and I apologize for calling you a blind believer, but how can you be so sure that Islam is the right religion? You might say that Islam is the right religion because it helps attain the "truth". But what is that "truth" that you are talking about? Again, I don't mean to be offensive in any way, I am just curious.
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no problem :great:
The truth =
- that Allah is the Only God worthy of worship
- that Muhammad was not a liar and that he was a Prophet of Allah
- that the Qur'an was a Divine Revelation from God (Allah)
I think my previous posts have youtube links of why I believe that is the Truth. You can watch the video in the first post in this thread.
They are long, but they should help with your curiosity.
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no problem :great:
The truth =
- that Allah is the Only God worthy of worship
- that Muhammad was not a liar and that he was a Prophet of Allah
- that the Qur'an was a Divine Revelation from God (Allah)
I think my previous posts have youtube links of why I believe that is the Truth. You can watch the video in the first post in this thread.
They are long, but they should help with your curiosity.
If hes so great why did he make animals like mosquitos and wasps, theyre awful!
lmao..I don't know why I found that so funny.
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no problem :great:
The truth =
- that Allah is the Only God worthy of worship
- that Muhammad was not a liar and that he was a Prophet of Allah
- that the Qur'an was a Divine Revelation from God (Allah)
I think my previous posts have youtube links of why I believe that is the Truth. You can watch the video in the first post in this thread.
They are long, but they should help with your curiosity.
What makes your god superior to all others? The way you stated it is there other gods? If I worship the wrong god will I be punished for my mistake?
I've always wondered too (I'm not sure how it goes for everyone.) if your life is born and predetermined by your god, why should you be punished for what the god(s) destined you to do? (I'm not sure what religion this is.)
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no problem :great:
The truth =
- that Allah is the Only God worthy of worship
- that Muhammad was not a liar and that he was a Prophet of Allah
- that the Qur'an was a Divine Revelation from God (Allah)
I think my previous posts have youtube links of why I believe that is the Truth. You can watch the video in the first post in this thread.
They are long, but they should help with your curiosity.
What makes your god superior to all others? The way you stated it is there other gods? If I worship the wrong god will I be punished for my mistake?
I've always wondered too (I'm not sure how it goes for everyone.) if your life is born and predetermined by your god, why should you be punished for what the god(s) destined you to do? (I'm not sure what religion this is.)
There are other FALSE gods
But there is ONE TRUE God worthy of being worshipped.
As Allah stated in the Qur'an (somewhere along these lines), "If there were to be other gods equal to Allah everything would be in chaos."
a. SURAH IKHLAS (chapter 112 of Quran) WITH EXPLANATION
(i) Translation
As per Islam, the best and the most concise definition of God is given in Surah Ikhlas of the Glorious Qur’an:
Say He is Allah,
The One and Only;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not,
Nor is He begotten;
And there is none
Like unto Him.
(Al Qur’an 112:1-4)
The word ‘assamad’ is difficult to translate. It means that absolute existence can be attributed only to Allah, all other existence being temporal or conditional. It also means Allah is not dependant on any person or thing but all persons and things are dependent on Him.
It is the touch stone of Theology
Surah Ikhlas i.e. Chapter 112 of the Glorious Qur’an is the touchstone of Theology. ‘Theo’ in Greek means God and ‘logy’ means study. Thus ‘Theology’ means study of God and Surah Ikhlas is the touchstone of the study of God.
If you want to purchase or sell your gold jewellery, you would first evaluate it. Such an evaluation of gold jewellery is done by a goldsmith with the help of a touchstone. He rubs the gold jewellery on the touch stone and compares its colour with rubbing samples of gold. If it matches with 24 Karat gold he will tell that your jewellery is 24 Karat pure Gold. If it is not high quality pure Gold, he will tell you its value whether 22 Karats, 18 Karats or it may not be gold at all. It may be fake because all that glitters is not gold.
Similarly Surah Ikhlas (Chapter 112 of the Qur’an) is the touchstone of theology, which can verify whether the deity that you worship is a true God or a false God. Thus, Surah Ikhlaas is a four-line definition of Almighty God according to the Qur’an. If any one claims to be, or is believed to be Almighty God satisfies this four-line definition, we Muslims will readily accept that deity as God. This Chapter of the Glorious Qur’an, Surah Ikhlas, is the acid test. It is the ‘Furqan’ or the criterion to judge between the one True God and false claimants to divinity. Hence, whichever deity any human on earth worships, if such a deity fulfills the criteria specified in this Chapter of the Qur’an, then this deity is worthy of worship and is the One True God.
You're probably talking about Islam. That's a question a lot of Muslims ask. If our destiny/fate has already written down, why should we care what happens next or why should we be punished?
That is a wrong way of thinking. You CAN alter your destiny for a better one if you ask Allah for Good and Paradise and you start to work hard and do good deeds.
but if you just accept that you'll go to hell, and you don't care or do anything about it, then how could you expect any good?
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@ Royal:
So if you just live a normal life, without praying to Allah but not doing bad deeds, you will still go to hell because that is your destiny and you didn't try to improve it?
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If you believe that submitting to Allah is the truth but ignore it and you didn't follow it then yep. That's the biggest bad deed there is, by not acknowledging Allah as the true God. But no one knows their destiny.
On the authority of Abdullah bin Masud, who said: the Messenger of Allah, and he is the truthful, the believed narrated to us :
"Verily the creation of each one of you is brought together in his mother's belly for forty days in the form of seed, then he is a clot of blood for a like period, then a morsel of flesh for a like period, then there is sent to him the angel who blows the breath of life into him and who is commanded about four matters: to write down his means of livelihood, his life span, his actions, and whether happy or unhappy. By Allah, other than Whom there is no god, verily one of you behaves like the people of Paradise until there is but an arm's length between him and it, and that which has been written over takes him and so he behaves like the people of Hell-fire and thus he enters it; and one of you behaves like the people of Hell-fire until there is but an arm's length between him and it, and that which has been written over takes him and so he behaves like the people of Paradise and thus he enters it." related by Bukhari and Muslim
On the authority of Abu Hurairah, who said: the Messenger of Allah said :
p "Allah the Almighty is good and accepts only that which is good. Allah has commanded the faithful to do that which he commanded the messengers, and the Almighty has said: "O ye messengers ! Eat of the good things and do right". And Allah the Almighty has said : "O ye who believe! Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you"
Then he mentioned [the case of] a man who, having journeyed far, is disheveled and dusty and who spreads out his hands to the sky [saying] : "O Lord! O Lord!" - while his food is unlawful, his drink unlawful, his clothing unlawful, and he is nourished unlawfully, so how can he be answered!" related by Muslim
On the authority of Anas, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah say:
Allah the Almighty has said: "O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its." related by Al-Tirmithi, who said that it was a good and sound Hadith.
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atheist :great:
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If you believe that submitting to Allah is the truth but ignore it and you didn't follow it then yep. That's the biggest bad deed there is, by not acknowledging Allah as the true God. But no one knows their destiny.
On the authority of Abdullah bin Masud, who said: the Messenger of Allah, and he is the truthful, the believed narrated to us :
"Verily the creation of each one of you is brought together in his mother's belly for forty days in the form of seed, then he is a clot of blood for a like period, then a morsel of flesh for a like period, then there is sent to him the angel who blows the breath of life into him and who is commanded about four matters: to write down his means of livelihood, his life span, his actions, and whether happy or unhappy. By Allah, other than Whom there is no god, verily one of you behaves like the people of Paradise until there is but an arm's length between him and it, and that which has been written over takes him and so he behaves like the people of Hell-fire and thus he enters it; and one of you behaves like the people of Hell-fire until there is but an arm's length between him and it, and that which has been written over takes him and so he behaves like the people of Paradise and thus he enters it." related by Bukhari and Muslim
On the authority of Abu Hurairah, who said: the Messenger of Allah said :
p "Allah the Almighty is good and accepts only that which is good. Allah has commanded the faithful to do that which he commanded the messengers, and the Almighty has said: "O ye messengers ! Eat of the good things and do right". And Allah the Almighty has said : "O ye who believe! Eat of the good things wherewith We have provided you"
Then he mentioned [the case of] a man who, having journeyed far, is disheveled and dusty and who spreads out his hands to the sky [saying] : "O Lord! O Lord!" - while his food is unlawful, his drink unlawful, his clothing unlawful, and he is nourished unlawfully, so how can he be answered!" related by Muslim
On the authority of Anas, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah say:
Allah the Almighty has said: "O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its." related by Al-Tirmithi, who said that it was a good and sound Hadith.
you see you actually have to explain stuff to people rather than post gigabytes for people to read and watch. than you say you earned dawa..
plus, the language of the quotes is like old english. i wonder if anyone understands you.
i m sorry but thats what i think.
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you see you actually have to explain stuff to people rather than post gigabytes for people to read and watch. than you say you earned dawa..
plus, the language of the quotes is like old english. i wonder if anyone understands you.
i m sorry but thats what i think.
I'm pretty sure the ppl here understand it. the english is simple. It's not shakespearean or something... And I'm quoting them because they're from the Prophet's sayings, not my own.
Anyways, if anyone didn't understand here are some explanations
1st hadith I quoted in the post above:
It obviously talks a bit of how a baby is inside the mother's womb at the starting stages. Then it goes on to say that Allah puts the soul into the baby and commands an angel to write down the destiny of the baby. Lastly, the Prophet says that some people might be good or bad throughout his life but nearing his/her end he/she all of a sudden changes because it is what was written.
2nd hadith:
simple explanation = if you want your supplications to be answered, try to be a good Muslim... really easy to understand that.
3rd hadith:
Allah is telling us that no matter how many or big the sins are, if you ask Him for forgiveness, He will forgive you. again, easy to understand...
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Religion of peace; Why do so many of you guys kill the christians in Egypt on NYE and on their easter?
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Does killing non-Muslims on their Holidays have any base in Islam?
no.
Those ppl are stupid, ignorant extremists. Their actions have NOTHING to do with Islam.
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It's their excuse
and as I said, they're ignorant. They don't know what they're talking about.
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@ Lis and damiano,
you guys should read the thread if you haven't rather than asking the same question over and over, this has been discussed before. it is stupid of you guys to keep taking the thread in just one direction when other things can be talked about.
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Does killing non-Muslims on their Holidays have any base in Islam?
no.
Those ppl are stupid, ignorant extremists. Their actions have NOTHING to do with Islam.
No, but that's what they are claiming.
Why aren't they recieving the same teachings as you do, how do they become ignorant?
By they way, what does extremists actually mean lol
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Hey guys i wanted to clear something over here
1- In isalm we believe in one god there arent any other gods and its the same god all reliegons before us had
2- The terrorist attacks have NOTHING to do with Islam
the terorists are ignorent as RF referred because they just want any excuse to kill innocent people
3- Didnt and of you christians wonder why we muslims never said bad things abouth jesus or christianity? (im talking about real muslims)
The answer is simple : in islam we beieve in other reliegons with profets, we believe there was jesus and we believe that christianity is a reliegon and we believe in many other profets (mousa, Ibrahim etc) and we respect them and we believe in what they delivered in books
--I guess your wondering why did god send all these profits and releigons and why did he send profit mohammed
There is more than one reason for that
1- The reliegons were only suituable fo their time
2- Most of the reliegous books had a change in them by the people so they can have the pleasures they want
(Thats why God said that he will protect the quran and because islam was the last reliegon that fits all times)
and btw for what i know is that profit mohammed was mentioned in most of the reliegous books that came before but the books as i said were changed
and also i wanted to make it clear that many muslims nowadays just say they are muslim by name while they dont do anything from what islam has told us
If i mispelled anything im sorry about it im not that good in english and RF hope you will fix me if anything I said was wron
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Hey guys i wanted to clear something over here
1- In isalm we believe in one god there arent any other gods and its the same god all reliegons before us had
2- The terrorist attacks have NOTHING to do with Islam
the terorists are ignorent as RF referred because they just want any excuse to kill innocent people
3- Didnt and of you christians wonder why we muslims never said bad things abouth jesus or christianity? (im talking about real muslims)
The answer is simple : in islam we beieve in other reliegons with profets, we believe there was jesus and we believe that christianity is a reliegon and we believe in many other profets (mousa, Ibrahim etc) and we respect them and we believe in what they delivered in books
--I guess your wondering why did god send all these profits and releigons and why did he send profit mohammed
There is more than one reason for that
1- The reliegons were only suituable fo their time
2- Most of the reliegous books had a change in them by the people so they can have the pleasures they want
(Thats why God said that he will protect the quran and because islam was the last reliegon that fits all times)
and btw for what i know is that profit mohammed was mentioned in most of the reliegous books that came before but the books as i said were changed
and also i wanted to make it clear that many muslims nowadays just say they are muslim by name while they dont do anything from what islam has told us
If i mispelled anything im sorry about it im not that good in english and RF hope you will fix me if anything I said was wron
Good post, AJS. The part highlighted is in all religions too, not just islam ;)
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some Muslim extremists are those who say that one major sin you do (e.g. illegal sexual intercourse, murder, magic...) renders you a non-Muslim
Others are extremists by reacting extremely because of emotions.
There other extremes but I hope you get the picture.
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fuck religion :098:
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I've said this before and i'll say it again... 'Muslims are not perfect, but Islam is.'
Every religion have extremists even atheism, and every religion have those who don't practice what they preach. So just because Islam is under more scrutiny, doesn't mean it's necessarily the worst religion. So find concrete evidence against Islam and not muslims, then i'll accept your arguments and take a good long look at myself.
And i have placed all the flaws, contradictions and issues with the Bible and Christianity before so i'll hold my peace at this occasion and leave you with only this.
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
Yes.
As I said, everything that will come to pass has already been written.
Birth defects are tests from Allah too. How will the parents take care of him/her? Will they become angry? Start to blame God? Or will the have patience?
They're a test for society too. How will the perceive or think of such defects? Will they take care of him, or make fun of him? Or cast him/her away coz they're not created perfectly?
They're also a test for the person too. Will he/she have patience when she grow up? Will they give up on life?
etc...
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
Yes.
As I said, everything that will come to pass has already been written.
Birth defects are tests from Allah too. How will the parents take care of him/her? Will they become angry? Start to blame God? Or will the have patience?
They're a test for society too. How will the perceive or think of such defects? Will they take care of him, or make fun of him? Or cast him/her away coz they're not created perfectly?
They're also a test for the person too. Will he/she have patience when she grow up? Will they give up on life?
etc...
That sucks man!
What about SIDS? The child never even get's a chance to live..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome)
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
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No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
Its also a lesson to the people around the person who is defected
:) The other people should be thank ful that they were not born like this and as for the child , goes to heaven
:)
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
This was my main reason to leave all organised religions to others. When I was Christian I thought that Satan that did things like that...I refuse to believe that God would test people in such a way.
As to who controls birth defects, that is unknown in the agnostic theist belief system.
No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I'm sure you wouldn't be as positive as you are being now.
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
This was my main reason to leave all organised religions to others. When I was Christian I thought that Satan that did things like that...I refuse to believe that God would test people in such a way.
As to who controls birth defects, that is unknown in the agnostic theist belief system.
No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I'm sure you wouldn't be as positive as you are being now.
Its not just a test
In Islam we believe everything happens for a reason. A reason we might not know but we believe that anything that happen(good or bad) is Gods will and he knows better than us
(for example a kid that dies young it is a bad thing from our prospective but what if when the kid grew up he will be a sinner, so i think its better for him to die young and go to heaven rather than being a sinner)
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
This was my main reason to leave all organised religions to others. When I was Christian I thought that Satan that did things like that...I refuse to believe that God would test people in such a way.
As to who controls birth defects, that is unknown in the agnostic theist belief system.
No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I'm sure you wouldn't be as positive as you are being now.
Its not just a test
In Islam we believe everything happens for a reason. A reason we might not know but we believe that anything that happen(good or bad) is Gods will and he knows better than us
(for example a kid that dies young it is a bad thing from our prospective but what if when the kid grew up he will be a sinner, so i think its better for him to die young and go to heaven rather than being a sinner)
exactly
the recording of good and bad deeds starts when a person reaches puberty
You have to think positive
Also, when you're sick, your supplications are more likely to be answered because you are more sincere in your supplications.
but of course, you don't wish to be sick. There is a supplication to ask Allah to make your life easy and not to be overburdened or tried too much in this life. I can't remember the words.
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You can also check these links:
Benefits of believers’ trials
"Why does Allaah burden the believers who do many acts of worship with sickness and other trials, when the sinners are enjoying all the good things in life?"
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12099/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12099/)
A righteous woman is suffering trials and is asking why
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22798/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22798/)
This world is the place of trials and tribulations
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13205/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13205/)
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You can also check these links:
Benefits of believers’ trials
"Why does Allaah burden the believers who do many acts of worship with sickness and other trials, when the sinners are enjoying all the good things in life?"
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12099/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/12099/)
A righteous woman is suffering trials and is asking why
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22798/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/22798/)
This world is the place of trials and tribulations
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13205/ (http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13205/)
i don't consider giving others 3 long pages to read as a very good argument... :017:
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
This was my main reason to leave all organised religions to others. When I was Christian I thought that Satan that did things like that...I refuse to believe that God would test people in such a way.
As to who controls birth defects, that is unknown in the agnostic theist belief system.
No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I'm sure you wouldn't be as positive as you are being now.
Its not just a test
In Islam we believe everything happens for a reason. A reason we might not know but we believe that anything that happen(good or bad) is Gods will and he knows better than us
(for example a kid that dies young it is a bad thing from our prospective but what if when the kid grew up he will be a sinner, so i think its better for him to die young and go to heaven rather than being a sinner)
Thats pathetic!
who the hell knows who is what in the future,when they are young?
GOD? thats bs!
I respect every religion, even though im an atheist, but born a catholic.
For example, if this so called "god" that the majority religion has, 1 god or mulitiple gods, there is always a problem on the believer saying, well if we knew he was going to be a sinner, its better for him to die young, than to be sinner. What a so called "all knowing" god to know this, and let this happen. Why let this young sinner be born at all?
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Who controls birth defects in your religion? God?
would like to know what is your opinion about this, who controls birth defects?
This was my main reason to leave all organised religions to others. When I was Christian I thought that Satan that did things like that...I refuse to believe that God would test people in such a way.
As to who controls birth defects, that is unknown in the agnostic theist belief system.
No it doesn't suck
it's giving that person a more positive perspective on his/her life.
Well, that child goes to heaven then. All children are born sinless, it's the parents who make them Christian, Jew, Hindu etc...
:great:
Hopefully it doesn't happen to you, but if it did I'm sure you wouldn't be as positive as you are being now.
Its not just a test
In Islam we believe everything happens for a reason. A reason we might not know but we believe that anything that happen(good or bad) is Gods will and he knows better than us
(for example a kid that dies young it is a bad thing from our prospective but what if when the kid grew up he will be a sinner, so i think its better for him to die young and go to heaven rather than being a sinner)
Thats pathetic!
who the hell knows who is what in the future,when they are young?
GOD? thats bs!
I respect every religion, even though im an atheist, but born a catholic.
For example, if this so called "god" that the majority religion has, 1 god or mulitiple gods, there is always a problem on the believer saying, well if we knew he was going to be a sinner, its better for him to die young, than to be sinner. What a so called "all knowing" god to know this, and let this happen. Why let this young sinner be born at all?
I respect your opinion
can you tell me what do you believe in?
and btw if there was no god how did the world start?
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Well, as most atheists would say our universe began with the Big Bang. Scientists are trying to find what there was before the Big Bang wich is extremely tricky. The Big Bang was caused by 2 colliding Branes, to find more information about that you can read about the M-theory because I'm not going to type out a ton of evidence when it most likely won't matter anyway.
One experiment "proving" the Big Bang would be the echoes of it wich can be heard through radio waves. This was discovered on accident by two scientists trying to discover something else wich I can't remember.
Also, there never was "nothing" as some people seem to think. There has always been energy. Wich in my opinion could lead to events like the Big Bang.
Sure, it's possible that God created the Big Bang. But the chances of that being true are extremely slim, the chances of it being the M-theory makes much more sense than saying that something that has been made up by us thousands of years ago and has nothing to back itself up.
If God was all-knowing he would know who would turn into an atheist, christian or whatever religion since they are his creations. If this world is a test then it's pure luck since people raised in a christian family will most likely be christian, atheist family atheist, etc.
Anyway I respect peoples beliefs. It makes me sad though that people believe I should go to hell because I've been raised in an atheist family. Even if I wanted to convert I wouldn't have a choice. Especially not now since I've done alot of research and a God wouldn't make sense to me the same as atheism doesn't make sense to you.
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i am religious and i am not against the Big Bang. Nor is it contradictory to anything i believe.
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Well, as most would say atheists our universe began with the Big Bang. Scientists are trying to find what there was before the Big Bang wich is extremely tricky. The Big Bang was caused by 2 colliding Branes, to find more information about that you can read about the M-theory because I'm not going to type out a ton of evidence when it most likely won't matter anyway.
One experiment "proving" the Big Bang would be the echoes of it wich can be heard through radio waves. This was discovered on accident by two scientists trying to discover something else wich I can't remember.
Also, there never was "nothing" as some people seem to think. There has always been energy. Wich in my opinion could lead to events like the Big Bang.
Sure, it's possible that God created the Big Bang. But the chances of that being true are extremely slim, the chances of it being the M-theory makes much more sense than saying that something that has been made up by us thousands of years ago and has nothing to back itself up.
If God was all-knowing he would know who would turn into an atheist, christian or whatever religion since they are his creations. If this world is a test then it's pure luck since people raised in a christian family will most likely be christian, atheist family atheist, etc.
Anyway I respect peoples beliefs. It makes me sad though that people believe I should go to hell because I've been raised in an atheist family. Even if I wanted to convert I wouldn't have a choice. Especially not now since I've done alot of research and a God wouldn't make sense to me the same as atheism doesn't make sense to you.
Most* atheist believe on that theory.
The big bang theory is nothing more than that, a theory.
Like any other religous believes, everything can't be proved, as well as to what "god" is the real god, or if there are multiple gods.
It seems to me that if there is a real god, and having prove, that would destroy every other religion and the believers.
Why wouldn't an all knowing god, or multiple gods( for other religions), let this happen?
As an atheist, i haven't even been think twice on the extraordinary chances earth has evolved, as well as the only place known to human life there is life, because we simply do not even know how the universe was evolved, therefore; how can we know if trillions miles away there is another planet with sustainable life?
Hence knowing there is a god? I loathe the fact that most of the world has a religious belief, and look down upon those who don't or disagree. In the end of any belief it ends up being nothing but self faith, like a self motivation.
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It's moving from a theory to concrete proof because of all the mathematic formulas and experiments backing it up. The signals being one of them. Well it still stands as a theory I suppose but a pretty convincing one.
Some people still believe man has never been on the moon though, trying to convince people that have already set their opinion and mind is quite pointless. They could argue the same towards me but I'm open minded and I want something that is not based on a book written thousands of years ago.
Alex I agree with you on most things.
Humans have evolved religion for a reason, if you believe in darwinism that is. The reason for it in my opinion would be motivation (like you said) and getting people to gather together to fight for their belief, increasing survival rate.
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Why do you have to believe on something? why can't people just take the facts as they are and live they're life? And questions you can't answer with facts, don't need to be answered with belief, but you find the answer yourself?
I'm just interested the way you think, cause to me religion is just a bed side story, not to offend anyone.
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The Big Bang "theory" is something almost every scientist would agree with, and it makes perfect sense. As many of you may know, the universe is expanding, and since it is expanding as time passes by, it proves that the universe was smaller millions of years ago. If it is expanding right now, then it must have been a small, powerful atom at some point as well. There was a period called Plank Epoch during which the universe suddenly exploded, and I have concrete detail to prove this.
Anyways, I am an atheist and my only question is, if there really is ONE right god, according to some of you, then why doesn't He help other non-believers understand that He is the only one?
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Atheists conveying their opinion about the existance of god, get the fuck out. This is a religion thread where you ask question and have discussions about religion, not whether something exists. If you want to make a new thread about how the world came to be, make one!
Does anyone here know anything about hinduism? What's that about?
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Can We Live Better Lives Without Religion? ( Q & A Session - 4 of 4 )
Can We Live Better Lives Without Religion? ( Q & A Session - 4 of 4 ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxJOywIQ2MI#)