Beyond Football - Freestyle Football Forum
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: MiguelFreestyle09 on Aug 09, 2009, 08:24: AM
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Who won ufc 101?
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last night. anderson silva v. forrest griffin at 205.
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5562/silvagriffin1.gif)
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2039/silvagriffin2.gif)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3562/silvagriffin3.gif)
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Who won ufc 101?
what do you mean by that? you can't really "win" a ufc event
BJ penn beat kenny florian in the only title fight
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yo pb:
can you give me a link for ufc streaming? I lack pay per view and am therefore missing out.
Also, any news on potential GSP vs. Silva matchups?
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can you give me a link for ufc streaming? I lack pay per view and am therefore missing out.
justin.tv usually has a few channels w/it on. just google ufc "whatever" stream the day of, and you should find something that works. channelsurfing.net usually has a few links as well
Also, any news on potential GSP vs. Silva matchups?
i would be very surprised to see that happen after what happened last night
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WTF, i told you anderson Silva is the best.
he's like muhammad Ali lol
damn
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WTF, i told you anderson Silva is the best.
he's like muhammad Ali lol
damn
Yeah, he is an absolute animal. And there is only one person (minus Lyoto Machida) that I can see that even has the potential to beat him.
If you actually watch MMA, and are not one those youtube highlight reel people, you will agree with me.
Dan Henderson. He is the only person (Minus the losses silva has taken) to ever have actually given Silva a run for his money, and Hendo
is CONSTANTLY getting better (see his last fight for sufficient evidence).
As for a GSP vs. Silva fight. Please TF10, don't be a tit. Of course that will not happen anytime soon.
For as smart as you think you are, that would be TERRIBLE for long-term business.
It would generate a hell of a lot of revenue for that month yes, but in the process,
would tarnish the legacy of the fighter who lost (GSP). Besides, Meet at 185? GSP=No capacity for that. Different game plan.
For that to happen, they need more cans to fight, and to add to their continuous
wins and unbeaten streaks as to keep those 2 fighters as main-event fighters.
Don't believe this effect? two words: Chuck Liddell. Need more evidence?
GSP ending BJ Penn's 170 lb. Career and losing his reputation (see preview to UFC 101 where penn admits this).
luckily he was able to dominate ken flo and save some face.
Case in point, Dana White is too smart for that. Just as he is too smart to put
Silva Vs. Machida anytime soon.
Machida, Silva, Fedor, GSP, and Penn are the p4p best right now.
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WTF, i told you anderson Silva is the best.
he's like muhammad Ali lol
damn
he is a prick compared to Ali
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WTF, i told you anderson Silva is the best.
he's like muhammad Ali lol
damn
he is a prick compared to Ali
Please. Just leave this thread. You clearly know nothing.
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WTF, i told you anderson Silva is the best.
he's like muhammad Ali lol
damn
he is a prick compared to Ali
Please. Just leave this thread. You clearly know nothing.
Olympic gold
He defeated boxers such as Tony Esperti, Jim Robinson, Donnie Fleeman, Alonzo Johnson, George Logan, Willi Besmanoff, Lamar Clark and Henry Cooper
Demolated Sonny Liston twice
Almost Killed Paterson
Used the rope-a-dope to deafeat George Forman 1974 in "the rumble in the jungle"
"Thrilla In Manila"
Atalanta 1996, the olympic fire
Fight for peace on earth with all his heart
one of the best speechers all time
Is by amny comparable with nelson Mandela, Malcom X and Marthin Luther king
Refused to kill people in Vietnam 1967(An officer warned him he was committing a felony punishable by five years in prison) . His Heavyweight title was taken away from him... he wasnt allowed to box untill 1970
'Hell no, we won't go'
Sports Illustrated's "Sportsman of the Century"
BBC's "Sports Personality of the Century"
GQ magazine's "Athlete of the Century"
World Sports Award's "World Sportsman of the Century"
i can keep doing this for years, ... Silva has black belt in Brazilian jujtzi or wtf it is....
Sure Silva is probebly a good fighter but to compare him to someone like M. Ali is just ridiculous
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Moby meant it in ability. His prowess in the cage is as powerful as Ali's prowess was in the ring. :hello:
As for those 'accolades' you are praising Ali with, who really gives a shit about it outside the ring?
We are looking at fighting ability right here, not who can imitate Mother Theresa better :rolleyes:
Besides, Cashius Clay is 67--Silva is still young.
and a Black Belt in BJJ is a HUGE accomplishment. Something few people do.
And he is a master in Muay-Thai (arguably the best in the world) and Judo.
Ali is master in one subject. Boxing. Silva is master in 3 things.
And a lot of your argument is pure perspective.
"Refused to kill people in Vietnam 1967(An officer warned him he was committing a felony punishable by five years in prison) . His Heavyweight title was taken away from him... he wasnt allowed to box untill 1970"
I see this as being a coward. You see it as being a 'hero'.Which he managed to risk nothing but not being able to box. Boo Hoo. What a self-righteous prick. What about all those that didn't want to go to war either but did it because their country needed them? Yeah, Vietnam was a bullshit war, but that is besides the point. Please do not give me that bullshit about, "it was his religion to fight."
Uhh, buddy, have you seen the middle-east these days?
And please don't get me started about Malcolm X.
Well, my ill-informed buddy, I guess it is about that time to put that tin-foil hat on.
Hope it fits.
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Moby meant it in ability. His prowess in the cage is as powerful as Ali's prowess was in the ring. :hello:
As for those 'accolades' you are praising Ali with, who really gives a shit about it outside the ring?
We are looking at fighting ability right here, not who can imitate Mother Theresa better :rolleyes:
Besides, Cashius Clay is 67--Silva is still young.
and a Black Belt in BJJ is a HUGE accomplishment. Something few people do.
And he is a master in Muay-Thai (arguably the best in the world) and Judo.
Ali is master in one subject. Boxing. Silva is master in 3 things.
And a lot of your argument is pure perspective.
"Refused to kill people in Vietnam 1967(An officer warned him he was committing a felony punishable by five years in prison) . His Heavyweight title was taken away from him... he wasnt allowed to box untill 1970"
I see this as being a coward. You see it as being a 'hero'.Which he managed to risk nothing but not being able to box. Boo Hoo. What a self-righteous prick. What about all those that didn't want to go to war either but did it because their country needed them? Yeah, Vietnam was a bullshit war, but that is besides the point. Please do not give me that bullshit about, "it was his religion to fight."
Uhh, buddy, have you seen the middle-east these days?
And please don't get me started about Malcolm X.
Well, my ill-informed buddy, I guess it is about that time to put that tin-foil hat on.
Hope it fits.
He said "just like",, your big anus probebly cant understand those words
Silva is 34 Ali won in thrilla in manilla when he was 33...
he risked 5 years in prison for refused to take part in the war
Why should you tell me about malcom X? i just said that 'for many ppl he is comparable to malcom x' ... ppls opinion, not mine
"Uhh, buddy, have you seen the middle-east these days? " wtf has that to do with the subject...
I know you have much money, hopefully enough to buy a new brain
PS. Sry for being off-topic,
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Clearly a touchy subject for Gustav lol
Chill man, moby was only jokin
And pb, you c*nt, it takes ages for this this page to load cos of all those damn gifs :cursing:
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Clearly a touchy subject for Gustav lol
Chill man, moby was only jokin
And pb, you c*nt, it takes ages for this this page to load cos of all those damn gifs :cursing:
lol, not because of moby, the fat bastard tj hook claimed me to leave this thread while he should have left forum long time ago
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tj hook: you're right about how the fight would be bad for ufc in the longterm. You're also right about how Silva would probably win, because I highly doubt that GSP can outstrike Silva. Even though GSP, pound for pound, has better ground game than Silva (there's not even an argument about that....GSP is a fucking monster on the ground), Silva is, I think, a little bit faster with his hands. That means that GSP will have to take down and outwrestle a guy who is naturally way heavier than him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GSP is a walkaround 170, whereas Silva is a walkaround 205. Even if they both gain/lose the pounds, there's no way he can outmuscle Silva. Not when Silva could outmuscle Hendo. I don't care how much better a ground game GSP has (it's not that much better anyways), it's just no happening. That said, for some reason, I really wanna see it happen. That's all you really had to read into my comment up there.
Machida is a monster, and I love the fact that he's come out of a karate background. I also love that about GSP. Another thing: I doubt that Silva is the best Muay-Thai practitioner in the world. He's the best in UFC, and probably in organized MMA, but maybe not in the world.
About the Muhammad Ali thing: There's no doubt who's the greater man: Ali.
But if they ever fought in each of their primes, Silva would break him. Why? Silva has a sick ground game. Ali had none. Silva can kick. Ali couldn't. Silva has those wicked muaythai elbows...ali didn't (see that reverse elbow Silva did a while back...it may have been on hendo)
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tj hook: you're right about how the fight would be bad for ufc in the longterm. You're also right about how Silva would probably win, because I highly doubt that GSP can outstrike Silva. Even though GSP, pound for pound, has better ground game than Silva (there's not even an argument about that....GSP is a fucking monster on the ground), Silva is, I think, a little bit faster with his hands. That means that GSP will have to take down and outwrestle a guy who is naturally way heavier than him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GSP is a walkaround 170, whereas Silva is a walkaround 205. Even if they both gain/lose the pounds, there's no way he can outmuscle Silva. Not when Silva could outmuscle Hendo. I don't care how much better a ground game GSP has (it's not that much better anyways), it's just no happening. That said, for some reason, I really wanna see it happen. That's all you really had to read into my comment up there.
Machida is a monster, and I love the fact that he's come out of a karate background. I also love that about GSP. Another thing: I doubt that Silva is the best Muay-Thai practitioner in the world. He's the best in UFC, and probably in organized MMA, but maybe not in the world.
About the Muhammad Ali thing: There's no doubt who's the greater man: Ali.
But if they ever fought in each of their primes, Silva would break him. Why? Silva has a sick ground game. Ali had none. Silva can kick. Ali couldn't. Silva has those wicked muaythai elbows...ali didn't (see that reverse elbow Silva did a while back...it may have been on hendo)
Ok, NOW you are talking sensibly. You are absolutely right. GSP does have the best ground game in the UFC. He is not even a wrestler, and made Matt Hughes, and other division I champs look like total rookies. Who else has taken BJ Penn down with such ease? No one. Statistics show that BJ Penn has one of the best take down defences in the UFC. GSP shitted on that statistic and didn't care. However, as much as I love GSP (he is my favorite fighter), I do not want to see him lose against Silva, which would happen-- and I think it would be fairly easy too. GSP deserves his title of dominace as he is exhibiting in the welterweight weight class, and why would we tarnish that by making him move up? Same thing happned to Penn; He moved up, got destroyed, and it hurt his reputation badly. No one likes watching their hero dismantled.
As for Machida, I would bet my house that he would win against Silva. Name me one flaw in Machida's game. He is the most elusive fighter in UFC history. Silva has some flaws being that while he is a BJJ black belt, he has been known to have average GnP defence, which correct me if I am wrong, Travis Lutter (can't remember) exposed, as well as Hendo a little bit. His greco-roman backround definitely helps, and I bet that knockout on Bisping is fresh in everyone's mind.
As for Silva's walking around weight, no he is not a 205'er, he just put on that weight (if you notice he was not ripped as usual), because simply, no one is touching him at the middleweight level, or so he felt.
As for Gustav--Come on pal, I thought you were worth debating. Moby never said "Just like", he said like, and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home. Maybe for Christmas I'll buy a new brain. Except not for me--I like to give to the needy. I'll FedEx it to you.
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As for Gustav--Come on pal, I thought you were worth debating. Moby never said "Just like", he said like, and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home. Maybe for Christmas I'll buy a new brain. Except not for me--I like to give to the needy. I'll FedEx it to you
he said : He'S like
I know what he meant, but I still wanted to say that he isnt like him, cause he isnt, not even close, he is a prick compared to him.. then you come, the big fool and try to make me a fool. Then I need to proof for you what I mean... ..Your think i take up stupid arguments and what he did outside the ring has nothing to do with it, when it is just showing how much bigger he is than Silva, .... I was just pointing out that he is nothing compared to him, then you start to go mental and asks me to leave this thread
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tj hook: you're right about how the fight would be bad for ufc in the longterm. You're also right about how Silva would probably win, because I highly doubt that GSP can outstrike Silva. Even though GSP, pound for pound, has better ground game than Silva (there's not even an argument about that....GSP is a fucking monster on the ground), Silva is, I think, a little bit faster with his hands. That means that GSP will have to take down and outwrestle a guy who is naturally way heavier than him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but GSP is a walkaround 170, whereas Silva is a walkaround 205. Even if they both gain/lose the pounds, there's no way he can outmuscle Silva. Not when Silva could outmuscle Hendo. I don't care how much better a ground game GSP has (it's not that much better anyways), it's just no happening. That said, for some reason, I really wanna see it happen. That's all you really had to read into my comment up there.
Machida is a monster, and I love the fact that he's come out of a karate background. I also love that about GSP. Another thing: I doubt that Silva is the best Muay-Thai practitioner in the world. He's the best in UFC, and probably in organized MMA, but maybe not in the world.
About the Muhammad Ali thing: There's no doubt who's the greater man: Ali.
But if they ever fought in each of their primes, Silva would break him. Why? Silva has a sick ground game. Ali had none. Silva can kick. Ali couldn't. Silva has those wicked muaythai elbows...ali didn't (see that reverse elbow Silva did a while back...it may have been on hendo)
Ok, NOW you are talking sensibly. You are absolutely right. GSP does have the best ground game in the UFC. He is not even a wrestler, and made Matt Hughes, and other division I champs look like total rookies. Who else has taken BJ Penn down with such ease? No one. Statistics show that BJ Penn has one of the best take down defences in the UFC. GSP shitted on that statistic and didn't care. However, as much as I love GSP (he is my favorite fighter), I do not want to see him lose against Silva, which would happen-- and I think it would be fairly easy too. GSP deserves his title of dominace as he is exhibiting in the welterweight weight class, and why would we tarnish that by making him move up? Same thing happned to Penn; He moved up, got destroyed, and it hurt his reputation badly. No one likes watching their hero dismantled.
As for Machida, I would bet my house that he would win against Silva. Name me one flaw in Machida's game. He is the most elusive fighter in UFC history. Silva has some flaws being that while he is a BJJ black belt, he has been known to have average GnP defence, which correct me if I am wrong, Travis Lutter (can't remember) exposed, as well as Hendo a little bit. His greco-roman backround definitely helps, and I bet that knockout on Bisping is fresh in everyone's mind.
As for Silva's walking around weight, no he is not a 205'er, he just put on that weight (if you notice he was not ripped as usual), because simply, no one is touching him at the middleweight level, or so he felt.
As for Gustav--Come on pal, I thought you were worth debating. Moby never said "Just like", he said like, and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home. Maybe for Christmas I'll buy a new brain. Except not for me--I like to give to the needy. I'll FedEx it to you.
yeah GSP practices with the Canadian national wrestling team, and I hear that he is a black belt in bjj as well. GSP is also my favorite fighter haha. But he'd get bodied by Silva, just because of size difference. And yeah, Machida is fucking awesome. He's an example of why karate doesn't have to be a flop. Which makes me happy because I am a fairly serious student of karate. The elusiveness comes from that, I think. Defense in karate is very highly developed...the hand defence is almost as complex as wing chun, but more practical, and it's very moblie, involving tons of dodging and sweep defence. Which is why fighters like Machida and GSP are so hard to touch.
Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage vs Silva, though. Honestly, GSP style cut-ins would work better on Silva than pure wrestling, because pound for pound, silva is freaky strong. If GSP were the same weight as Silva, I'd give them at least even chances, because if GSP could get by Silva's hands, it would be rape.
I think a machida v silva fight would be a hell of a matchup...I'd be pumped as shit.
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As for Gustav--Come on pal, I thought you were worth debating. Moby never said "Just like", he said like, and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home. Maybe for Christmas I'll buy a new brain. Except not for me--I like to give to the needy. I'll FedEx it to you
he said : He'S like
I know what he meant, but I still wanted to say that he isnt like him, cause he isnt, not even close, he is a prick compared to him.. then you come, the big fool and try to make me a fool. Then I need to proof for you what I mean... ..Your think i take up stupid arguments and what he did outside the ring has nothing to do with it, when it is just showing how much bigger he is than Silva, .... I was just pointing out that he is nothing compared to him, then you start to go mental and asks me to leave this thread
Whattttt the fuck did you just say? Hmmmm... I re read it a couple times, and all I got from it was a play-by-play of what happened. Good Job :thumbsup: I assume English is not your native tongue so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.....Alright, I gave it. Your still a moron.
yeah GSP practices with the Canadian national wrestling team, and I hear that he is a black belt in bjj as well. GSP is also my favorite fighter haha. But he'd get bodied by Silva, just because of size difference. And yeah, Machida is fucking awesome. He's an example of why karate doesn't have to be a flop. Which makes me happy because I am a fairly serious student of karate. The elusiveness comes from that, I think. Defense in karate is very highly developed...the hand defence is almost as complex as wing chun, but more practical, and it's very moblie, involving tons of dodging and sweep defence. Which is why fighters like Machida and GSP are so hard to touch.
Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage vs Silva, though. Honestly, GSP style cut-ins would work better on Silva than pure wrestling, because pound for pound, silva is freaky strong. If GSP were the same weight as Silva, I'd give them at least even chances, because if GSP could get by Silva's hands, it would be rape.
I think a machida v silva fight would be a hell of a matchup...I'd be pumped as shit.
GSP is perfect--At his weight class. No more, no less to be said to that. The reason he is so effective is because for his size, he has the strength of someone at 205, almost as if he is bigger than his opponents, but he really isn't. He has 2 blackbelts-- one in karate and one in bjj, best wrestling in the UFC statistically and visually, and his striking is just plain dirty. Maybe he should move up a class though, just so he can have some decent competition. No one can move up from lightweight and beat him, as BJ Penn who is the best at that division tried to prove, and he ended up getting tooled.
You think Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage? Hmmm... why? I thought it helped him because of the ability to control then upper body where if your fighting Anderson Silva, that needs to be your game plan so you don't get KO'ed.
On a seperate note, since we are talking about UFC 101, who else was quite disappointed in Ken Flo's gameplan of just trying to gas Penn out? Digging your shoulder into a guy for three rounds is pathetic and immediately showed he was not in the same class as Penn. As much as I wanted Penn to lose, I knew he wouldn't. I am glad Penn didn't bring up anymore bullshit about the vasoline in the previews though, and just admitted the loss was a massacre.
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As for Gustav--Come on pal, I thought you were worth debating. Moby never said "Just like", he said like, and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home. Maybe for Christmas I'll buy a new brain. Except not for me--I like to give to the needy. I'll FedEx it to you
he said : He'S like
I know what he meant, but I still wanted to say that he isnt like him, cause he isnt, not even close, he is a prick compared to him.. then you come, the big fool and try to make me a fool. Then I need to proof for you what I mean... ..Your think i take up stupid arguments and what he did outside the ring has nothing to do with it, when it is just showing how much bigger he is than Silva, .... I was just pointing out that he is nothing compared to him, then you start to go mental and asks me to leave this thread
Whattttt the fuck did you just say? Hmmmm... I re read it a couple times, and all I got from it was a play-by-play of what happened. Good Job :thumbsup: I assume English is not your native tongue so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.....Alright, I gave it. Your still a moron.
yeah GSP practices with the Canadian national wrestling team, and I hear that he is a black belt in bjj as well. GSP is also my favorite fighter haha. But he'd get bodied by Silva, just because of size difference. And yeah, Machida is fucking awesome. He's an example of why karate doesn't have to be a flop. Which makes me happy because I am a fairly serious student of karate. The elusiveness comes from that, I think. Defense in karate is very highly developed...the hand defence is almost as complex as wing chun, but more practical, and it's very moblie, involving tons of dodging and sweep defence. Which is why fighters like Machida and GSP are so hard to touch.
Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage vs Silva, though. Honestly, GSP style cut-ins would work better on Silva than pure wrestling, because pound for pound, silva is freaky strong. If GSP were the same weight as Silva, I'd give them at least even chances, because if GSP could get by Silva's hands, it would be rape.
I think a machida v silva fight would be a hell of a matchup...I'd be pumped as shit.
GSP is perfect--At his weight class. No more, no less to be said to that. The reason he is so effective is because for his size, he has the strength of someone at 205, almost as if he is bigger than his opponents, but he really isn't. He has 2 blackbelts-- one in karate and one in bjj, best wrestling in the UFC statistically and visually, and his striking is just plain dirty. Maybe he should move up a class though, just so he can have some decent competition. No one can move up from lightweight and beat him, as BJ Penn who is the best at that division tried to prove, and he ended up getting tooled.
You think Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage? Hmmm... why? I thought it helped him because of the ability to control then upper body where if your fighting Anderson Silva, that needs to be your game plan so you don't get KO'ed.
On a seperate note, since we are talking about UFC 101, who else was quite disappointed in Ken Flo's gameplan of just trying to gas Penn out? Digging your shoulder into a guy for three rounds is pathetic and immediately showed he was not in the same class as Penn. As much as I wanted Penn to lose, I knew he wouldn't. I am glad Penn didn't bring up anymore bullshit about the vasoline in the previews though, and just admitted the loss was a massacre.
I would say GSP's strength (at his natural 170) is a strong 185...205 is just too heavy. And yeah his striking is dirty....and I love it because it's really karate-influenced haha. Yeah I think GSP should move up to 185 if he can, as long as Silva doesn't move down he'll do really well.
If Hedo were stronger than Silva his greco-roman would put him at an advantage...but that's not the case because Silva is scarily strong. There needs to be more of a mix. Remember that Silva is excellent at bjj...so you need the kind of lethal mix that only GSP has.
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I was just watching some machida fights in detail...like over and over again analyzing his movement.
With his striking and blocking style, he could be part of my dojo. His blocking is in the exact open-hand style that mine is, and his roundhouse kicks are the same. His punches and sweeps are fairly similar as well.
But the way he turns off techniques is the most striking think. He is very subtle about it, and dodges away from his block so that the strike is thrown by his body. But instead of standing his ground, he puts a technique in, then turns off. The guy is like a 50 times better version of me (minus the grappling...I have no ground game...I can take down, but that's it...I'm not taught to grapple...take down and get out). The man is a beast and I'll be analyzing his fights nonstop to improve my own technique.
Machida is awesome.
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GSP does have the best ground game in the UFC
i wouldn't go that far (not to take away from gsp)
Matt Hughes, and other division I champs look like total rookies
matt hughes was not a d1 champ. in fact, i can't remember a d1 champ that gsp has faced (not to take away from gsp)
Who else has taken BJ Penn down with such ease? No one. Statistics show that BJ Penn has one of the best take down defences in the UFC
bj could deal w/the skill level of gsp. bj can't deal w/the size of gsp. bj just doesn't give a fuck. he will fight anyone, anywhere. fuck, he fought lyoto machida in hero's (not to take away from gsp)
i think that they are both incredible fighters. i just think that gsp - bj penn is what you get when you take two equally excellent fighters and super-size one. it's a shame that fights like this will ultimately tarnish bj's reputation in some people's eyes
As for Machida, I would bet my house that he would win against Silva
not that i think they'll ever fight, but that would be the most retarded fight in history. they'll just run around in a circle for 25 minutes. i can get that by watching adriano and ronaldinho play together for brazil
Travis Lutter (can't remember) exposed, as well as Hendo a little bit.
it was travis lutter. henderson-silva r1 is essentially the blue print for fighting anderson silva
I bet that knockout on Bisping is fresh in everyone's mind.
circle left, circle left, ktfo
As for Silva's walking around weight, no he is not a 205'er, he just put on that weight (if you notice he was not ripped as usual), because simply, no one is touching him at the middleweight level, or so he felt.
anderson is a very big 185. he obviously has made the transition to 205 very well. he has the power to compete. he may as well be a lhw
Hendo's greco-roman put him at a disadvantage vs Silva, though.
did you watch round one?
On a seperate note, since we are talking about UFC 101, who else was quite disappointed in Ken Flo's gameplan of just trying to gas Penn out? Digging your shoulder into a guy for three rounds is pathetic and immediately showed he was not in the same class as Penn. As much as I wanted Penn to lose, I knew he wouldn't. I am glad Penn didn't bring up anymore bullshit about the vasoline in the previews though, and just admitted the loss was a massacre.
the ufc's lightweight division is about as interesting as the ufc's welterweight division
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and if you notice, there are gifs (moving graphics--o0o0o imagine that?) of Silva knocking someone out, not serving soup in a shelter home.
OMG hahhahahahahahahahhaha i never laughed that hard on BF. lol
listen Boxing and MMA are totaly different sports, if you take ali in the cage he will lose, if you take silva in the ring he will lose.
and what i meant is how Silva was dodging those punches exactly like muhammad ali, Ofcourse Muhammad Ali is the greatest in boxing and i dont really know much about MMA but Silva might become the greatest in MMA. they are two totally different things.
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@the machida vs silva thing:
who the fuck cares? It would be a technically interesting fight, because weeing how Machida would deal with Silva's explosiveness would be illuminating. To be honest, I doubt Silva would be able to touch him, but then I doubt Machida could land much either. It would be a great fight if you're watching it as a martial artist...if you're watching for entertainment, then yeah it would be boring. Personally, it's the fight I'd most like to see right now, and it would totally teach the world something about karate. Silva is slow on his kick pullbacks (because he does muay thai, where you bring your weight around more dramatically, thereby making for a slower kick), and you can trust Machida to take advantage of that. Also, the way Silva commits on his kicks is good for Machida and bad for Silva...Machida has the best lateral movement in the ufc, and wicked openhand blocking, so he will take advantage of the way Silva commits, probably dodge and slip in a left a few times.
See the first takedown in this fight to get what I mean...his legs are like fucking logs, but the pullback isn't as snappy as a karate or tkd style kick:
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All that said, I think Silva has the edge on the ground, so Machida would need to land something and take him down (best bet the way I see it is dodge-left-either takedown or sweep) a la GSP (except more indirectly o the strike). But pulling that off is a bitch vs. Silva. Hard fight to call, but I'd give Machida the overall edge.
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To be honest, I doubt Silva would be able to touch him, but then I doubt Machida could land much either.
that's pretty much the point. i would be absolutely shocked if one engaged the other
It would be a great fight if you're watching it as a martial artist...if you're watching for entertainment, then yeah it would be boring.
kind of like jose mourinho's chelsea
advantage of the way Silva commits
see patrick cote and thales leites. you have to commit for anderson to commit
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lol at the fight between anderson and griffin :lol:
soooo embarrassing
would love to see machida fight silva
although anderson said he's not really interested to take the title from machida since they're friends and all
both great technical fighters
two of the very best mma fighters ever no doubt
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see patrick cote and thales leites. you have to commit for anderson to commit
no you have to give him an opening. Anderson is so fucking explosive that he'll just take advantage of it and come in with a foot or a fist. Machida always give an opening: look at how he holds his hands. Anderson would come in with a hard kick or a hook at some point...and Machida would wait for it.
You step in, and anderson commits. Machida steps in and steps out -- it's how he fights. So when he steps out, Silva commits. That's bad for Silva. If Machida steps in convincingly, then steps out and manipulates Anderson's momentum, there could be some interesting results.
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(http://i42.tinypic.com/aa7l1h.gif)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/sgu7pf.jpg)
a little bit of hilarity from the thales leites fight
You step in, and anderson commits
i think you underestimate silva as a striker and a fighter. he's not going to pull a miguel torres and get reckless. plus, again, you have to remember that they train together daily at casa preta
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That first sweep was so cheeky...epic moment.
I'm not underestimating Silva. Against most fighters, that quality is a huge bonus and allows him to get in some huge hits. Committing when somebody steps in on you is smart...it's just that Machida's style anticipates that, and combats it effectively and devastatingly...in fact, shotokan karate is pretty good at doing that, and Machuda's father, when he made his alterations on the Shotokan style to adapt to big, powerful brazilians, accentuated that and took the quick lateral and back-forth motion to a whole new extreme. It's not a weakness on Silva's part...for pure striking, Silva is the best in UFC. Rather, it's a strength on Machida's part, because Machida has the best strike defense in UFC.
About them being training partners: yeah, so they both know each other really well, meaning the fight would be more who-is-having-a-better-day-based than anything else. I just think Machida's style would give him the edge. Also, them being training partners and friends is why they probably won't fight.
machida hasn't ever lost a round in UFC. that had to be said.
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matt hughes was not a d1 champ. in fact, i can't remember a d1 champ that gsp has faced (not to take away from gsp)
When I said champ, I didn't literally mean a champion as in number one, I meant as in receiving big accolades such as all-state, big schools, best in their brackets etc.. Matt Hughes may not have won the whole thing, but he was all-state in d1. Pretty damn good for GSP who has never wrestled a day in his life, prior to training in MMA don't ya think?
Also, Jon Fitch, who was the Purdue Wrestling captain. (Like I said, BIG schools with BIG wrestlers). He tooled him in wrestling as well.
And your missing Josh Koshcheck, he was an actual champion, Gsp made him look like a highschool wrestler on JV :thumbsup:
machida hasn't ever lost a round in UFC. that had to be said.
Great point! But Silva sure has :cheers: keep that in mind
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meaning the fight would be more who-is-having-a-better-day-based than anything else
yeah. again, machida is very good tactically, but anderson is not going to waltz right into his fists. i think it's a wash standing up.
Pretty damn good for GSP who has never wrestled a day in his life, prior to training in MMA don't ya think?
well, yeah, he's a freak:
(not to take away from gsp)
look, the dude is a great grappler, and he is an elite grappler w/i the ufc, but to say that he has the best ground game in the ufc is a little foolish imo
Josh Koshcheck
that's who i missed
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look, the dude is a great grappler, and he is an elite grappler w/i the ufc, but to say that he has the best ground game in the ufc is a little foolish imo
Name someone better. Please. :boxing:
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already did
don't sleep on demian maia's ground game b/c he's not gsp's fighting equal. he is fucking sick
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Well he's better in bjj, definitely
but probably not in GnP, although I can't say for sure because I've never seen the dude fight a full fight.
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Well he's better in bjj, definitely
but probably not in GnP, although I can't say for sure because I've never seen the dude fight a full fight.
i wouldn't imagine that it would be a fun time having that dude lay on top of you. plus, his bjj is just so ridiculous. he's definitely on gsp's level. a bj penn at 155 is on gsp's level as well imo. big nog is legendary. hazlett is a fucking monster, etc. of course, only bj penn is close to gsp's level as a fighter.
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already did
don't sleep on demian maia's ground game b/c he's not gsp's fighting equal. he is fucking sick
Yeah he is extremely sick, but he has fought a bunch of cans, minus Nate Quarry. Yes, he also broken many records; correct me if I am wrong but 3 consecutive fights with Submission of the Night? But really, c'mon. Jason Macdonald? Chael Sonnen? Ryan Jensen?
Name me another fighter besides GSP that has broken through BJ Penn's guard so easily?? BJ Penn was a national champion in BJJ with only 3 years of training. That is absolutely disgusting! As a white belt he was tapping out blue and purple belts. How many more examples must I provide? Gsp absolutely destroyed BJ Penn's guard as easily as he wanted to. Thiago Alves?? Same shit. Alves has unreal BJJ, and still destroyed that and made him look like a purple.
Case in point. St.Pierre: Best ground game in the UFC right now.
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Jason Macdonald
bjj black belt
Chael Sonnen
2x d1 national champion
Ryan Jensen
got me there
Name me another fighter besides GSP that has broken through BJ Penn's guard so easily
you're putting too much weight on that one fight against a much smaller opponent
As a white belt he was tapping out blue and purple belts
:lol:
Alves has unreal BJJ, and still destroyed that and made him look like a purple.
thiago alves is a purple belt
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Yeah, but those fighters mentioned had nothing to show for it. Hint: Check their records :pimp:
To compare their stats to accomplished people with great records and great ground game is a mismatch.
(GSP handed it to them)
As for putting too much 'emphasis' on a smaller opponent, it does not matter in BJJ.
They teach you to use your smaller stature for leverage. And besides, they were both the same weight, so who cares?
BJ Penn has some of the best Jitz in the world, so why would a 15 pounds really matter? you become 90 lbs. in an armbar
:lol:
I don't know if your laughing because you don't belive me? But here is the proof.
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BJ Penn as a white belt in the Joe Moriera Internationals Tournament in 1997.
thiago alves is a purple belt
Yeah, I realised that after I wrote it, I was thinking of Thiago Silva for some reason, who is notorious for his blackbelt.
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As for putting too much 'emphasis' on a smaller opponent, it does not matter in BJJ.
when you put a much bigger wrestler w/sub defense on top of you, it becomes important
And besides, they were both the same weight, so who cares?
bj's natural weight is not 170. he is not nearly as strong as gsp is. plus, there is no way that both were 170 at fight time. i would imagine that gsp had quite a few pounds on him
I don't know if your laughing because you don't belive me? But here is the proof.
thought you were talking about gsp's bjj. i know that bj penn's bjj is some of the best out there in mma
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By your logic, Anderson Silva would then be a small 205er.
Meaning the others should be stronger than him?
GSP is stronger because he is stronger. Has nothing to do with weight.
BJ Penn is strong as fuck too. He can jump out of the water with no hands
and land on his feet no problem. His legs are like tree trunks.
Passing the guard is technique. Think Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir I
Brock was landing big, big shots--However, when trying to pass the guard,
it was a different story. Can you argue that Mir is stronger than Lesnar?
I don't think so.
Besides that, what did you think of the Amir vs Hendricks?
I thought it was bullshit. 5 to the back of the head? come on now
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By your logic, Anderson Silva would then be a small 205er.
not necessarily
GSP is stronger because he is stronger. Has nothing to do with weight.
could a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either
Passing the guard is technique. Think Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir I
Brock was landing big, big shots--However, when trying to pass the guard,
it was a different story. Can you argue that Mir is stronger than Lesnar?
I don't think so.
could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?
Besides that, what did you think of the Amir vs Hendricks?
didn't see it. heard miraggiagilalati was the ref. not surprised
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uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either
Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.
could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?
There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.
For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.
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uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either
Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.
could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?
There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.
For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.
technique is the name of the game to a certain extent. But if you have two fighters who are around equal technically, then the heavier one gets a huge edge.
In pure self-defense, technique IS the game. The whole point is to succeed against someone bigger than you. That's what many martial arts are designed for.
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uld a gsp at 170 ever be as strong as a brock lesnar? having more mass to throw around doesn't hurt either
Whoa Whoa Whoa, Boss. That is a HUGE difference in weight class. A measily 15 lbs shouldn't hurt. Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.
could you argue that passing the guard is related to technique exclusively?
There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard. Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him. However, the heavy weight division is a little bit different.
For the most part though, yes, techinque is the name of the game.
technique is the name of the game to a certain extent. But if you have two fighters who are around equal technically, then the heavier one gets a huge edge.
In pure self-defense, technique IS the game. The whole point is to succeed against someone bigger than you. That's what many martial arts are designed for.
Right. Which is why I said, for the most part. As fun as over-generalizations go, I couldn't exactly be 100 percent committed to that idea.
Size does matter.But in my opinion, has to be significant.
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Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.
then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight
There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard.
firstly, that's really taking a section of the fight completely out of context. gsp had spent most of his time abusing bj penn before he was even in bj's guard. secondly, these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.
Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him
that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.
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Pick up something that weighs 15 pounds. You will see it is not entirely significant.
then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight
There are always exceptions; in this case it is a weight difference of something totally significant. Let's put a magic number of 30 pounds. That would be a bit of an easier path to breaking a guard.
firstly, that's really taking a section of the fight completely out of context. gsp had spent most of his time abusing bj penn before he was even in bj's guard. secondly, these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.
Then again, I bet Mr.Penn could hold off many people 2 weight classes above him
that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.
Which is why GSP had the edge over bj. Because he's bigger and stronger, and has equal ground game, if not better. There's no arguing with that. But that doesn't mean that GSP doesn't have the best ground game in ufc.
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then why have lightweight and welterweight class distinctions? may as well have a lelterweight
Interesting point. For awhile, and a long while at that, there were no weight classes. Think Royce Gracie. And how much did it
matter then? Which is why I still don't see why there is weight classes, other than for people the size of Brock Lesnar. And most fighters
aren't even at the weight they measured at. It is all logisitics. Many of them will run 8 miles on the treadmill, have no water, wear a sauna suit, swallow fish pills and then go weigh in. It is just something to "match-up" and prevent the neigh-sayers who lose, " Oh well he lost because he has 10 pounds on the guy!" Nevermind an amazing superman punch.
these are arguably two grapplers of similar skill levels. it doesn't take much of anything to separate the two. gsp was obviously much stronger than bj and was able to manhandle him at his leisure.
Like I said, GSP is naturally just stronger, no weight involved. Just as Sean Sherk is stronger than Penn. But did it matter? :thumbsup:
that isn't the point. bj penn could use his technique to hold off a vastly inferior grappler two weight classes above him. gsp is not a vastly inferior grappler.
Right. He is an amazing grappler. But there are certain aspects to grappling. A certain area may be lacking in someone's ground game. Obviously, Georges' strength and best thing is explosiveness in the guard in passing. He is at that level to take Penn like that. A lot of grapplers two classes above Penn are inferior, or rather he makes them look inferior, and in my opinion, in a straight grappling match, could take them. His flexiblity, wit, and movement are second to none.
Oh and back to the original premise.
Which is why GSP had the edge over bj. Because he's bigger and stronger, and has equal ground game, if not better. There's no arguing with that. But that doesn't mean that GSP doesn't have the best ground game in ufc
This.
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Think Royce Gracie. And how much did it matter then? Which is why I still don't see why there is weight classes
it did. royce gracie had something that no one else had really seen at the time
Many of them will run 8 miles on the treadmill, have no water, wear a sauna suit, swallow fish pills and then go weigh in. It is just something to "match-up"
yes, i know
Like I said, GSP is naturally just stronger, no weight involved. Just as Sean Sherk is stronger than Penn. But did it matter?
yes, except weight plays a huge role in leverage. sean sherk is an inferior fighter.
This.
thankfully this is a pound for pound comparison, and bj dominates his weight class on the ground at a similar level to gsp
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thankfully this is a pound for pound comparison, and bj dominates his weight class on the ground at a similar level to gsp
Off his back. It takes a couple minutes for BJ to fully pass guards. It takes GSP a matter of seconds. Easy. I still have not seen you mention anyone worth talking about on the ground yet, contesting GSP.
I believe the original premise was, GSP has the best ground game in the UFC right now. Then it got turned into an issue of weight. We talked about that. But still, it has not even shed light disproving GSP's overall dominance in the UFC. BJ Penn's groundgame in his division is not on the same level as GSP's in his division. Brock Lesnar's groundgame in his division is not on the dominance of GSP. Silva? Same story.
You want to talk weight? How's this. GSP Pound for Pound has the best ground game.
You bring many valid points, and this is a great discussion, but still.
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disproving GSP's overall dominance in the UFC
that wasn't really ever the point. i just thought that there is too much emphasis put on him passing the guard of an undersized and exhausted bj penn. i don't think my point ever really was anything other than: "gsp is an elite grappler in the ufc, but i would no go so far as to say that he is the outright best"
You bring many valid points, and this is a great discussion, but still.
yeah. i agreed w/a lot of what you're saying, but i'll argue until i'm blue in the face when i'm bored
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Yeah its an actual discussion. It would boring with all the "oh definitely's" and the "I agree's".
Overall, I was actually kind of dissapointed about it. I mean, I order every pay-per-view,
and all that, and I guess it is MMA where you never know what you are going to get,
but I thought it was pretty lackluster for the most part.
Hopefully 102 will be much better
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Yeah its an actual discussion. It would boring with all the "oh definitely's" and the "I agree's".
Overall, I was actually kind of dissapointed about it. I mean, I order every pay-per-view,
and all that, and I guess it is MMA where you never know what you are going to get,
but I thought it was pretty lackluster for the most part.
Hopefully 102 will be much better
Machida is fighting Rua in 103 right? Or is it 104?
anybody wanna talk about the merits of particular striking arts in ufc? Like muay thai vs. karate, or why tkd isn't really used (apart from some fighters' kicking techniques)
I think the reason for the latter is that tkd fighters often fight with hands down, or they're too focused on feet and not enough on hands. As for the former, I have lots of views on that, but I'll let other people put stuff on the table first.
let the games begin :cheers:
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Machida is fighting Rua in 103 right? Or is it 104?
pretty sure it's 04
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my stream on 102 died :cursing:
Maia got raped, though :lol:
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fedor=fag
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fedor=fag
:dontknow: